Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
The south Africa game shouldn't be in the list, quality quality bowling that did the same to Australia a year or two later I think
Although it's obviously a stain on our record the 26 at Eden Park was probably more acceptable than the loss to the Bangles.
England were coming straight on from an Ashes series where they had triumphed 3-1 after losing the first Test at the Gabba. Their confidence was sky high.
By contrast NZ really only had two class batsmen Sutcliffe and Reid and none of the team had played a game of cricket in the six weeks prior to the first test.
The England side had a host of all time greats captained by Hutton and including May, Cowdrey, Graveney in the batting line up Godfrey Evans (wk) and a bowling attack led by Statham and the blistering pace of Tyson supported by the spin of Wardle and Appleyard and the all rounder Trevor Bailey.
Then it rained - on uncovered wickets. England were only just in front when Hutton said to his bowlers stick around. If we can get a lead of 40 we won't have to bat again on this wicket.
Compared to the capitulation over the last 5 days by the #2 side in the world the amateurs of 1955 did pretty good.
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An interesting read from Ian Anderson at Stuff:
Black Caps shock defeat to Bangladesh raises questions, but more proof needed
Quoting parts:
... Instead, Bangladesh scored what could easily be rated as the biggest upset victory in the history of test cricket, which therefore also qualified as one of New Zealand’s most ignominious test defeats.
It wasn’t being bowled out by England for 26, but such was New Zealand’s lowly test standing when that occurred in 1955 (they were yet to win a test), being hammered wasn't a massive shock, even if the skeleton-thin score set and remains a test record for futility with the bat.
Hence why it’s hard to find an analogous result or performance – New Zealand have had plenty of miserable displays in their test history, but almost all have come when expectations have been lower than a limbo bar. ...
... It was a poor test for stand-in skipper Tom Latham, but other team-mates got knocked over by a bowler whose test average was more than 80 prior to coming to NZ. A wicket that looked placid when the hosts bowled was made to look like a WW1 minefield when Ebadot and his partners in crime steamed in as Kyle Jamieson and Tim Southee proved ineffective. ....
... Latham denied that his troops under-rated their opponents, but the performance suggested otherwise. That won’t happen again come Sunday, nor against South Africa in two home tests next month.
By then, we’ll know more whether this test was just a blip in a phenomenal string of home performances from what remains our best test team in history, or the radar signalling something bigger.
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@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
You enjoyed your post so much, it was worth quoting! You'll fit in well round these parts
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@hooroo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
You enjoyed your post so much, it was worth quoting! You'll fit in well round these parts
hahaha, new on here, was looking where to edit part of it, instead doubled it up... anyway the coach & players need to wake up going into the 2nd test, if we're going to struggle against a team like the Banglas, we're not going to have much chance against South Africa in that upcoming test series.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
That's only half a post/opinion
Who would you have dropped to fit Patel in?
Would it be the same player now in hindsight? E.g. for test 2.
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@rapido said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
That's only half a post/opinion
Who would you have dropped to fit Patel in?
Would it be the same player now in hindsight? E.g. for test 2.
Before the game I don't recall anyone on here who didn't think a 4 prong seam attack wasn't the right option. They just didn't show up. Apart from Wags 🥰
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@rapido said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
That's only half a post/opinion
Who would you have dropped to fit Patel in?
Would it be the same player now in hindsight? E.g. for test 2.
Before the game I don't recall anyone on here who didn't think a 4 prong seam attack wasn't the right option. They just didn't show up. Apart from Wags 🥰
It is Steads job, as would also be team senior leadership to talk to groundsmen about the pitch and how it is likely to play and then select..in my opinion that was either not done, or ignored. For me the fern is absolved from such a shit decision
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@rapido said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
That's only half a post/opinion
Who would you have dropped to fit Patel in?
Would it be the same player now in hindsight? E.g. for test 2.
I only posted that part to say how basically peeved off I was with that really pathetic effort by our mob.
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra, from what I've seen of him before he's only a bits & pieces player at the moment - it's the top 6 that have to do the job & set a good platform, with Patel at 7 we would've had a specialist spinner who bats a bit, he also would've added more balance to our attack with the 4 pace bowlers.
Hopefully Patel plays in the 2nd test.
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@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra
How many wickets has Patel taken in NZ?
Oh - that's right ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE.
No brainer
I guess it must be his batting that would have you picking him - after all he averages 6 in NZ (& 10 overall)
Take the Indian outlier away and despite playing the majority of his career in spin friendly countries he has 29 wickets @32.48. Very respectable for a Kiwi spinner but hardly a performance that demands inclusion in home conditions.
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@rapido said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
[rant] Wow what a disaster, fair play to the Bangladeshi team for exploiting our arrogance/ineptitude or whatever it was that lead to a complete lack of adherence to the recent blackcap standards and Im talking about actions in the field. The form was well below par, but the behavioural aspect was one of the most disappointing aspects of that game.
Also this shows again that the selection management of the squad was again poor, not just the prep which was also below par. Stead is a joke. I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I heard on TV commentary that Patel didn't even make this squad?, yet spin played a major part. The irony is Stead would have probably left Wagner out if he actually read the pitch
Banglas deserved to win - but yeah, that was an absolute bloody shocker by us losing to a team that are ranked near the bottom of the test table in our own backyard... it was like our mob thought they had already won the match before it had started, that's about the dumbest mindset you can have going into a match, we played like it, batting was poor & we bowled both sides of the wicket.
Agree with you about Stead too, this isn't the first time he's really stuffed up concerning selections & preparation & strategy - crazy that Patel wasn't in the 11, the bloke took 10 wickets against India, & he is only the 3rd bloke in the history of the game to do than in an innings... also I would always have a specialist spinner in a team, gives the bowling attack a much better balance.
That's only half a post/opinion
Who would you have dropped to fit Patel in?
Would it be the same player now in hindsight? E.g. for test 2.
Before the game I don't recall anyone on here who didn't think a 4 prong seam attack wasn't the right option. They just didn't show up. Apart from Wags 🥰
Yeah totally agree, its been a winning formula for quite a while now at home.
They didn't show up apart from Wags is spot on . -
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra
How many wickets has Patel taken in NZ?
Oh - that's right ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE.
No brainer
I guess it must be his batting that would have you picking him - after all he averages 6 in NZ (& 10 overall)
Take the Indian outlier away and despite playing the majority of his career in spin friendly countries he has 29 wickets @32.48. Very respectable for a Kiwi spinner but hardly a performance that demands inclusion in home conditions.
I have to agree Nothing about those stats warrants selection as a bat at 7 thats for sure.
Before the test I Couldn't see one of the quicks getting dropped for Patel.
Would not of made any difference to this result. -
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra
How many wickets has Patel taken in NZ?
Oh - that's right ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE.
No brainer
I guess it must be his batting that would have you picking him - after all he averages 6 in NZ (& 10 overall)
Take the Indian outlier away and despite playing the majority of his career in spin friendly countries he has 29 wickets @32.48. Very respectable for a Kiwi spinner but hardly a performance that demands inclusion in home conditions.
I have to agree Nothing about those stats warrants selection as a bat at 7 thats for sure.
Before the test I Couldn't see one of the quicks getting dropped for Patel.
Would not of made any difference to this result.Just playing devils advocate for a bit, even the comms were saying the pitch was not playing like a traditional NZ pitch, therefore you could argue the home stats were a little irrelevant.
What was the correct team to play?, I don't know and given so many who would be playing regardless (both with bat and ball) were below par, it may not have made a difference regardless, however he may altered the outcome. As for Patels batting, true he isn't going score a lot, but at least he showed in India he could defend which was something our current middle/lower order failed to apply.
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@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra
How many wickets has Patel taken in NZ?
Oh - that's right ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE.
No brainer
I guess it must be his batting that would have you picking him - after all he averages 6 in NZ (& 10 overall)
Take the Indian outlier away and despite playing the majority of his career in spin friendly countries he has 29 wickets @32.48. Very respectable for a Kiwi spinner but hardly a performance that demands inclusion in home conditions.
I have to agree Nothing about those stats warrants selection as a bat at 7 thats for sure.
Before the test I Couldn't see one of the quicks getting dropped for Patel.
Would not of made any difference to this result.Just playing devils advocate for a bit, even the comms were saying the pitch was not playing like a traditional NZ pitch, therefore you could argue the home stats were a little irrelevant.
What was the correct team to play?, I don't know and given so many who would be playing regardless (both with bat and ball) were below par, it may not have made a difference regardless, however he may altered the outcome. As for Patels batting, true he isn't going score a lot, but at least he showed in India he could defend which was something our current middle/lower order failed to apply.
Change the tactics for the quicks was the answer. Bangladesh showed us how.
Use the variable bounce by hitting the pitch harder and bowl at the stumps.Cross seam as well to stand the ball up more harder to hit on the top of the bounce than half volleys outside off stump which is what we mainly dished up.
Patel would not have won the game, Ravinda did the same really as Patel would have he bowled well, without wkts he got good turn and was economical.
The main wkt takers for Bangladesh were their quicks not their spinners they didn't run through us it was the quicks with right tactics.
Team was selected correctly,Tactics,Intensity and commitment were lacking.
Edit .
Blundel has to go weak WK, and technically deficient with the bat -
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@bayimports said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@kiwibloke said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Anyway, it was a no-brainer before the test 11 was selected that Patel should've played at 7 ahead of Ravindra
How many wickets has Patel taken in NZ?
Oh - that's right ZIP, ZERO, NADA, NONE.
No brainer
I guess it must be his batting that would have you picking him - after all he averages 6 in NZ (& 10 overall)
Take the Indian outlier away and despite playing the majority of his career in spin friendly countries he has 29 wickets @32.48. Very respectable for a Kiwi spinner but hardly a performance that demands inclusion in home conditions.
I have to agree Nothing about those stats warrants selection as a bat at 7 thats for sure.
Before the test I Couldn't see one of the quicks getting dropped for Patel.
Would not of made any difference to this result.Just playing devils advocate for a bit, even the comms were saying the pitch was not playing like a traditional NZ pitch, therefore you could argue the home stats were a little irrelevant.
What was the correct team to play?, I don't know and given so many who would be playing regardless (both with bat and ball) were below par, it may not have made a difference regardless, however he may altered the outcome. As for Patels batting, true he isn't going score a lot, but at least he showed in India he could defend which was something our current middle/lower order failed to apply.
Change the tactics for the quicks was the answer. Bangladesh showed us how.
Use the variable bounce by hitting the pitch harder and bowl at the stumps.Cross seam as well to stand the ball up more harder to hit on the top of the bounce than half volleys outside off stump which is what we mainly dished up.
Patel would not have won the game, Ravinda did the same really as Patel would have he bowled well, without wkts he got good turn and was economical.
The main wkt takers for Bangladesh were their quicks not their spinners they didn't run through us it was the quicks with right tactics.
Team was selected correctly,Tactics,Intensity and commitment were lacking.
Edit .
Blundel has to go weak WK, and technically deficient with the batI think I agree with almost everything you have mentioned, although I believe if Ravindra was the swap he may have got more wickets or put more pressure on from that end, as he is a better spinner than Ravindra. However it is a moot point even for me as he would not have changed what others lacked which I agree with you tactics, intensity and commitment was well below par.
Also agree on Blundel, will be interesting to see if Stead has it in him to make the call
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I think the side would always have been what it was. I was surprised that Patel wasn't at least an option in the wider squad though, and while he was always unlikely to have been selected in the final XI because recent history of pitches... the spin taken in both T20 matches at Bay Oval on the 23rd was a good reminder not to take NZ pitches as a given.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
I think the side would always have been what it was. I was surprised that Patel wasn't at least an option in the wider squad though, and while he was always unlikely to have been selected in the final XI because recent history of pitches... the spin taken in both T20 matches at Bay Oval on the 23rd was a good reminder not to take NZ pitches as a given.
Did we not bother consulting with the groundsman? There was nothing wrong with the pitch, the Bangles seamers did just fine
