Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022
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@act-crusader said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
An 8 wicket loss to the Bangles, you couldn’t script it but that is what we love about sport. It’s unpredictable, the against all odds can actually happen, underdogs do get up from time to time.
There will be massive questions asked about our prep, selections, captaincy and individual performances. And so there should be, but I tip my potae to the Bangles and the way they went about it. Their application and energy seemed a cut above any of their recent performances and more importantly in this match above ours.
Congrats.
To quote the great philosopher* million-to-one chances crop up nine times out of ten.
- Terry Pratchett
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Don't hold out huge hopes for a backlash at Hagley Oval The Craps look like a bunch of disinterested 3rd XI park cricketers.
Was thinking last evening that they need the rugby equivalent of hitting the tackle bags and a huge session on the scrum machine.
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Hubris.
That was a dire level of effort and performance from the Black Caps. Thrashed by the ninth ranked team in our own backyard.
The Black Caps played that game in a world where they just have to turn up, and the lowly ranked opposition will roll over for World Champs. Luke Ronchi may have been in the sun too long when he was talking about winning the game as late as last night; his charges went on to lose two wickets in about the time it took us to clear the bag check this morning.
Bowlers.
The Bangladeshi pace trio worked away constantly, with Ebadot by far the fastest bowler on display. They looked consistently dangerous. At times we looked like an early morning selection at Patrick's Pies. Ravindra bowled 20+ unmemorable overs.Changes?:
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Mitchell in for Ravindra. Little point in having a under-performing batsman and bowler at #7, regardless of pace v spin. Ravindra can find some form back in domestic cricket.
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It is very tempting to leave out Southee for just one game. For Henry or Patel, or whoever. Perhaps a short sharp reminder is needed about consistency. Or... it might just be that he's evolving into the proverbial Clouderson as his career reaches the end, and that is the best he has from now on? Am not entirely sure...
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Any random domestic keeper for Blundell may not produce a worse performance on current form - it reads like there is at least one good alternative out there on current form. There's no heir apparent in sport if you don't perform, and Blundell has done little of note to deserve that tag since the MCG.
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Taylor is very lucky Williamson is injured. Sentimentality is great, but if we want to retain that giant mace, we're a long way behind already.
Curiosity
How has Kyle Jamieson gone from a $2.86 million IPL contract last February, to eventually not getting a start for RCB, and reverting back past the mean with bat and ball for the Black Caps? Dunno, but Jurgensen, Ronchi, and/or the mental skills team have a bit of work to do.
Paint by numbers?
Gary Stead and Tom Latham. Their selections, tactics, and on-field nous are increasingly by rote; predictable and pedestrian. Latham is such a contrast with a former captain now up in the commentary box. Yes, we miss Williamson in many ways, but the contrast was still much bigger than expected.
But clearly you are overreacting based on one game?
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Don't blame the Black Caps preparation at all, it's an undeserved get out of jail card. They came into this series after playing two tests in India, both teams had to go through the same MIQ system, and the two day warmup game that the Bangladeshi's got saw only 20-odd overs bowled on day one thanks to rain. And which team was playing at home again? At a ground where we've beaten England and Pakistan in the first test of a series?
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The "hEnrY's piE cArT" retort; by that standard, see also on current form: Tim Southee, Kyle Jamieson, Rachin Ravindra.
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This is not entirely out of the blue. Ajaz's 10-for heroics in India were brilliant. But they also conveniently glossed over (a) how nonthreatening the bowling was at the other end from all concerned, and (b) the "we're in India so we need spinners" mindless selection of Will Sommerville over Neil Wagner, especially by the time of the second Test. The bowling at Bay Oval was primarily a continuation of that, especially from Southee and Jamieson. Boult has had plenty of prep time in the Mount lately.
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The pitch and/or the heat. Were pretty much consistent for the full five days, but it didn't seem to affect Bangladesh anywhere near as much...
Bay Oval
Put some more shade sails out the back somewhere, for goodness sake.
tl;dr: Black Caps levels of hubris = high.
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@hydro11 there is no doubt on a flat dry pitch our attack lacks a bit of cut through. No genuine speed merchants - the ones we have tried have broken down when a test match load has been placed on them. Spinners who are all rounders or just don’t get picked or even bowled. So losing the toss in hot dry conditions (when did we last have this type of heat for so long) put us on the back foot. Given that. the comments about Southee and Jamieson lack a bit of perspective. Let’s see how they go in next match.
For me Blundell has to be biggest disappointment - not a great wicket keeper but I thought he would make runs. Backs up India series where he averaged 5.75 ahead of Ross Taylor with 5, with two short stay ducks. Given his wicket keeping is poor he needs to make runs.
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@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Hubris.
That was a dire level of effort and performance from the Black Caps. Thrashed by the ninth ranked team in our own backyard.
The Black Caps played that game in a world where they just have to turn up, and the lowly ranked opposition will roll over for World Champs. Luke "batting coach?" Ronchi may have been in the sun too long when he was talking about winning the game as late as last night; his charges went on to lose two wickets in about the time it took us to clear the bag check this morning.
Bowlers.
The Bangladeshi pace trio worked away constantly, with Ebadot by far the fastest bowler on display. They looked consistently dangerous. At times we looked like an early morning selection at Patrick's Pies. Ravindra bowled 20+ unmemorable overs.Changes?:
-
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Little point in having a under-performing batsman and bowler at #7, regardless of pace v spin. Ravindra can find some form back in domestic cricket.
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It is very tempting to leave out Southee for just one game. For Henry or Patel, or whoever. Perhaps a short sharp reminder is needed about consistency. Or... it might just be that he's evolving into the proverbial Clouderson as his career reaches the end, and that is the best he has from now on? Am not entirely sure...
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Any random domestic keeper for Blundell may not produce a worse performance on current form - it reads like there is at least one good alternative out there on current form. There's no heir apparent in sport if you don't perform, and Blundell has done little of note to deserve that tag since the MCG.
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Taylor is very lucky Williamson is injured. Sentimentality is great, but if we want to retain that giant mace, we're a long way behind already.
Curiosity
How has Kyle Jamieson gone from a $2.86 million IPL contract last February, to eventually not getting a start for RCB, and reverting back past the mean with bat and ball for the Black Caps? Dunno, but Jurgensen, Ronchi, and/or the mental skills team have a bit of work to do.
Paint by numbers?
Gary Stead and Tom Latham. Their selections, tactics, and on-field nous are increasingly by rote; predictable and pedestrian. Latham is such a contrast with a former captain now up in the commentary box. Yes, we miss Williamson in many ways, but the contrast was still much bigger than expected.
But clearly you are overreacting based on one game?
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Don't blame the Black Caps preparation at all, it's an undeserved get out of jail card. They came into this series after playing two tests in India, both teams had to go through the same MIQ system, and the two day warmup game that the Bangladeshi's got saw only 20-odd overs bowled on day one thanks to rain. And which team was playing at home again? At a ground where we've beaten England and Pakistan in the first test of a series?
-
The "hEnrY's piE cArT" retort; by that standard, see also on current form: Tim Southee, Kyle Jamieson, Rachin Ravindra.
-
This is not entirely out of the blue. Ajaz's 10-for heroics in India were brilliant. But they conveniently glossed over (a) how nonthreatening the bowling was at the other end from all concerned, and (b) the "we're in India so we need spinners" mindless selection of Will Sommerville over Neil Wagner, especially by the time of the second Test. The bowling at Bay Oval was primarily a continuation of that, especially from Southee and Jamieson. Boult has had plenty of prep time in the Mount lately.
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The pitch and/or the heat. Were pretty much consistent for the full five days, but it didn't seem to affect Bangladesh anywhere near as much...
Bay Oval
Put some shade sails out the back somewhere, for goodness sake.
tl;dr: Black Caps levels of hubris = high.
This is reactionary. Jamieson averaged 30 in India; Southee averaged less than 30. Your genius idea is to replace those players with someone who averages 45 after one poor performance. Shocking, horrible idea.
Maybe we need to go back to being crap for a while so fans can stop acting so entitled?
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@kev said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 there is no doubt on a flat dry pitch our attack lacks a bit of cut through. No genuine speed merchants - the ones we have tried have broken down when a test match load has been placed on them. Spinners who are all rounders or just don’t get picked or even bowled. So losing the toss in hot dry conditions (when did we last have this type of heat for so long) put us on the back foot. Given that. the comments about Southee and Jamieson lack a bit of perspective. Let’s see how they go in next match.
For me Blundell has to be biggest disappointment - not a great wicket keeper but I thought he would make runs. Backs up India series where he averaged 5.75 ahead of Ross Taylor with 5, with two short stay ducks. Given his wicket keeping is poor he needs to make runs.
I would have expected Jamieson to offer a lot more in those conditions. I thought his bounce would trouble Bangladesh more. We all know that Southee and Boult need to swing the ball to be effective, which they weren't able to do. Our plan B has always been Wagner and Bangladesh dealt with him well in this game.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
This is reactionary. Jamieson averaged 30 in India; Southee averaged less than 30. Your genius idea is to replace those players with someone who averages 45 after one poor performance. Shocking, horrible idea.
Maybe we need to go back to being crap for a while so fans can stop acting so entitled?I'm not replacing Jamieson anywhere in that post.
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@hydro11 ... and whether it's sarcastically genius or not, it was already being raised in the press last night, at the very least as a rotational thing at that stage. (https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/black-caps/300490128/the-first-lean-spell-in-the-career-of-black-caps-quick-bowler-kyle-jamieson)
Jamieson and Southee will expect more assistance from the Hagley Oval wicket in Christchurch in the second test against Bangladesh starting on Sunday, but after both played the two tests against India, one could be given a game off with Matt Henry playing instead.
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A couple of random photos from the end.
The visiting fan contingent by the final boundary.
Was good to see the non playing squad - Henry, Mitchell, and I think the reserve fielder also turn out for genuine congrats to the Bangladeshi side after the initial round of handshakes.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hooroo said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@hydro11 when did Bangladesh last play test match cricket? I'm not sure we have a comparable excuse?
Literally they were playing last month against Pakistan.
At exactly the same time as we were
playingbeing educated in India.Both teams had very similar preparations.
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@hydro11 said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
@donsteppa said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Hubris.
That was a dire level of effort and performance from the Black Caps. Thrashed by the ninth ranked team in our own backyard.
The Black Caps played that game in a world where they just have to turn up, and the lowly ranked opposition will roll over for World Champs. Luke "batting coach?" Ronchi may have been in the sun too long when he was talking about winning the game as late as last night; his charges went on to lose two wickets in about the time it took us to clear the bag check this morning.
Bowlers.
The Bangladeshi pace trio worked away constantly, with Ebadot by far the fastest bowler on display. They looked consistently dangerous. At times we looked like an early morning selection at Patrick's Pies. Ravindra bowled 20+ unmemorable overs.Changes?:
-
Mitchell in for Ravindra. Little point in having a under-performing batsman and bowler at #7, regardless of pace v spin. Ravindra can find some form back in domestic cricket.
-
It is very tempting to leave out Southee for just one game. For Henry or Patel, or whoever. Perhaps a short sharp reminder is needed about consistency. Or... it might just be that he's evolving into the proverbial Clouderson as his career reaches the end, and that is the best he has from now on? Am not entirely sure...
-
Any random domestic keeper for Blundell may not produce a worse performance on current form - it reads like there is at least one good alternative out there on current form. There's no heir apparent in sport if you don't perform, and Blundell has done little of note to deserve that tag since the MCG.
-
Taylor is very lucky Williamson is injured. Sentimentality is great, but if we want to retain that giant mace, we're a long way behind already.
Curiosity
How has Kyle Jamieson gone from a $2.86 million IPL contract last February, to eventually not getting a start for RCB, and reverting back past the mean with bat and ball for the Black Caps? Dunno, but Jurgensen, Ronchi, and/or the mental skills team have a bit of work to do.
Paint by numbers?
Gary Stead and Tom Latham. Their selections, tactics, and on-field nous are increasingly by rote; predictable and pedestrian. Latham is such a contrast with a former captain now up in the commentary box. Yes, we miss Williamson in many ways, but the contrast was still much bigger than expected.
But clearly you are overreacting based on one game?
-
Don't blame the Black Caps preparation at all, it's an undeserved get out of jail card. They came into this series after playing two tests in India, both teams had to go through the same MIQ system, and the two day warmup game that the Bangladeshi's got saw only 20-odd overs bowled on day one thanks to rain. And which team was playing at home again? At a ground where we've beaten England and Pakistan in the first test of a series?
-
The "hEnrY's piE cArT" retort; by that standard, see also on current form: Tim Southee, Kyle Jamieson, Rachin Ravindra.
-
This is not entirely out of the blue. Ajaz's 10-for heroics in India were brilliant. But they conveniently glossed over (a) how nonthreatening the bowling was at the other end from all concerned, and (b) the "we're in India so we need spinners" mindless selection of Will Sommerville over Neil Wagner, especially by the time of the second Test. The bowling at Bay Oval was primarily a continuation of that, especially from Southee and Jamieson. Boult has had plenty of prep time in the Mount lately.
-
The pitch and/or the heat. Were pretty much consistent for the full five days, but it didn't seem to affect Bangladesh anywhere near as much...
Bay Oval
Put some shade sails out the back somewhere, for goodness sake.
tl;dr: Black Caps levels of hubris = high.
This is reactionary. Jamieson averaged 30 in India; Southee averaged less than 30. Your genius idea is to replace those players with someone who averages 45 after one poor performance. Shocking, horrible idea.
Maybe we need to go back to being crap for a while so fans can stop acting so entitled?
Shocking performance by the BC, the lack of fight by the tail .Mot prepared to dig in not once but twice.
The stupid tactics of bowling to off side fields on a dead pitch with variable bounce instead of bowling at the stumps to use the variable bounce.
To keep bowling in the areas and kissing the pitch was dumb they should have hit the pitch harder on the dead pitch to use the wkt just going through the motions.
Just a very dissapointing limp arse performance .
Like the 2nd test V India soft that’s what concerns me no intent. -
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That result and the BC performance has certainly given some life to this test series.
It makes for a fascinating 2nd test in ChCh.Can Bangladesh dominate again or will the BC lift,and play a much smarter tactical game with a lot more application and intensity.
I for one am looking forward to the response from both teams.
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@sparky said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Didn't see that result coming if I am honest. Every respect to Bangladesh on a superb performance and a sensational result.
Time for the BCs to lick their wounds in private, then bounce back at Christchurch.
No one disagreed before the game that the team we put wasn't the best one available. Apart from Wags and Conway the others failed to turn up. Time for them to salvage some pride and give the Bangles a smashing in game 2
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Fucking great start to 2022 lol
The Bangles are a team that has enough quality to beat anyone on their day if the opposition is off their game, hence them racking up more and more wins in the shorter forms. But to do it over 5 days, away from home, is a superb effort - hats off to them, they've come to play this time around and we haven't responded to the challenge. All credit to them, their fans should cherish this result.
I said earlier in the thread that we miss Kane's captaincy in games like this, and it has highlighted the lack of influence Stead has over the team. We are very much the Kane Williamson show, and if he's missing we go down a few notches in intensity and professionalism.
If we win the toss in the 2nd test and put them in on a green pitch we'll probably roll them cheaply and set up a big win. If we lose the toss that'll be a good test of whether we can respond to the challenge.
Good stuff Bangladesh, I doubt any of your fans will read this forum but you should be damn proud of that effort.
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@no-quarter said in Black Caps v Bangladesh 2022:
Fucking great start to 2022 lol
The Bangles are a team that has enough quality to beat anyone of their day if the opposition is off their game, hence them racking up more and more wins in the shorter forms. But to do it over 5 days, away from home, is a superb effort - hats off to them, they've come to play this time around and we haven't responded to the challenge. All credit to them, their fans should cherish this result.
I said earlier in the thread that we miss Kane's captaincy in games like this, and it has highlighted the lack of influence Stead has over the team. We are very much the Kane Williamson show, and if he's missing we go down a few notches in intensity and professionalism.
If we win the toss in the 2nd test and put them in on a green pitch we'll probably roll them cheaply and set up a big win. If we lose the toss that'll be a good test of whether we can respond to the challenge.
Good stuff Bangladesh, I doubt any of your fans will read this forum but you should be damn proud of that effort.
Easily the best moment in their cricketing history.
