Crusaders v Chiefs

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561386" data-time="1456562306">
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Really really don't like Fonatia. Just stifles the Crusaders back line. Drop him and get Havili into the midfield.
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Got to agree with you on that one. Have never really rated him. Seems to back himself to have a go a lot when the better option is to pass. Just doesn't provide enough punch which is what the Crusaders have lacked for years.
Hopefully he will be down the pecking order when Dagg, Fruen and Crotty come back.
I've said it before but for a massive dude Nadolo seems to fall down with the slightest touch sometimes. That Mckenzie try saver on him being a good example. Never looked like bumping him.
 
Thought Seu got caught out running too upright a few times but will hopefully learn.
Great to see Cruden back and running freely. Very good new for the ABs later in the year. Will be interesting to see how Dmac progresses because if he can add more maturity to his game and retain the "slipperyness" and step he could be awesome.
Can't help thinking he is too small for test rugby but who knows. He smashed Nadolo.

Crash

I was pleasantly surprised with the skill level and execution from both NZ derbies.
Right from the off it shows teams mean business. The Canes have a few work-ons however.
 
Chiefs delivered pretty much what I thought they would, young guns leading the way - does anyone know how serious the injury to Stevenson is? Liked what I saw from him.
Also liked very much what I saw from Seu, a good fit for the Chiefs. 
I've been championing DMac's livewire skills for a couple of seasons now, I think he and Cruden work well in tandem so it wasn't a surprise to see him revel in the conditions.. And despite the lack of a certain brick powerhouse in midfield, I think the Chiefs squad has a much more balanced feel to it this season, that is of course provided the remaining squad can stay healthy! :yes:
I wasn't sure how Tamanivalu and Ngatai would work, but for mine, they complement each other well, Ngatai is a deft ball player with silky skills who should kick on to press for that AB jersey. His main problem is and has always been remaining fit and unbroken for the season. The competition for AB midfield just started to heat up - especially with Moala, Fekitoa, Crotty and now Ranger returning to the fray. Speaking of the midfield - must also mention Walden - bloody hell where did he spring from? Another excellent young prospect.

Crucial

What pleased me the most (apart from the obvious win by the Chiefs over the Cantabs) was the early showing of handling skills, playing speed and innovation.
Shows that there is still room in NZ to progress the game further and further away from the bog found in the NH.
I liked the Chiefs occasional ploy of Cruden setting himself in the midfield to use his stepping to make half breaks then looking for an offload. They also have the scope to mix that up with DMac playing the same role.
Some of the handling in the Blues/ Highlanders game was sublime. The speed of thought and transfer was often too hard to even keep up with.
As for the Horrorcanes, I won't even go there.

SammyC

Mixed emotions after that one.
 
On one hand, I didn't expect us to win so am not overly disappointed.
 
But, as we actually turned up to play at the start if the season for a change I got more confident as the game went on. We looked really good when controlling possession and playing structured rugby. As soon as we let the game loosen up, Cruden and MacKenzie cut us to shreds.
 
Was a bit of a shit night actually... had to turn around and tell the bloke behind me to shut up. After which he challenged me to a fight.
 
We get the same season tickets every year, and are right next to the kids section. After putting up with about 50 variations of "fuck the crusaders fucking suck, fuck the chiefs are fucking great" ... I love a bit of banter at games. But jeez some dickheads have to realise there is a group of young girls (aged 5-10) in the row in front, don't swear like a sailor.
 
Thought Macalai looked great, want to get him more involved next week. Wainui looks to have potential too. Agree with whoever above said that fonotia is a huge weakness, he's so slow and not a distributor either.
 
Scrum was good until they subbed Moody and Talyor. Read looked interested. So could be an enjoyable season.
 
Although he was a bit up and down I hope they persist with Mou'aga.

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="561386" data-time="1456562306">
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Really really don't like Fonatia. Just stifles the Crusaders back line. Drop him and get Havili into the midfield.
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You'll be happy with this news then: 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

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</a>

bobily

We won't have to deal with Fonotia too much longer
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/77366361/crusader-fonotia-signs-with-ospreys'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/77366361/crusader-fonotia-signs-with-ospreys</a>

Crucial

Another 'issue' that came out of the game was the Crusaders being unable to replace the concussed player with a player that had already been subbed.
While I agree that maybe the rules possibly need a look at (to reflect the stricter approach to concussions), I thought it was quite clear that once subbed a player can only return for a front rower (to avoid GO scrums) or a blood bin. I found it incredible that Blackadder seem bemused after the game. Surely a coach would understand the substition laws and rules inside out?
Although it may seem harsh, the rule applies to concussed player in the same way as it applies to any other physical injury except a blood one (which has a high potential of being temporary).
I thought it was good reffing by Polly to go to the sideline and explain his decision clearly. He avoided the sometimes silly situation where any minor sign of blood has a team claiming 'blood bin' when that obviously isn't the main cause of the player leaving the field.

bobily

I thought that, like the bloodbin, there was also an exception for a concussion test. However, in Prinsep's case he was unconscious, and therefore, obviously wasn't going to be completing a concussion test.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="561552" data-time="1456699338">
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Another 'issue' that came out of the game was the Crusaders being unable to replace the concussed player with a player that had already been subbed.
While I agree that maybe the rules possibly need a look at (to reflect the stricter approach to concussions), I thought it was quite clear that once subbed a player can only return for a front rower (to avoid GO scrums) or a blood bin. I found it incredible that Blackadder seem bemused after the game. Surely a coach would understand the substition laws and rules inside out?
Although it may seem harsh, the rule applies to concussed player in the same way as it applies to any other physical injury except a blood one (which has a high potential of being temporary).
I thought it was good reffing by Polly to go to the sideline and explain his decision clearly. He avoided the sometimes silly situation where any minor sign of blood has a team claiming 'blood bin' when that obviously isn't the main cause of the player leaving the field.
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Agree he should have known, but the law is kind of silly
 
Blackadder should have told Fukifua to complain of a head knock directly after coming on.
 
Then they could have taken him off for a concussion test and brought Boys on.
 
But because Prinsepp is knocked out and can't talk. They can't take him off for tests

Crucial

This from the Herald
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Todd Blackadder has called for an immediate change to one of rugby's concussion laws after an incident which saw his team disadvantaged in the final minutes of their loss to the Chiefs in Christchurch on Saturday.
The unfortunate sequence of events occurred when Tim Boys, the openside flanker, was replaced after 67 minutes by Reed Prinsep, who was almost immediately knocked unconcious following an accidental clash of heads.
The concussed Prinsep was taken off the AMI Stadium pitch on a stretcher and straight to hospital after a break in play of at least 10 minutes, following which the Crusaders, 21-22 down at the time, asked to replace him with Boys, only to be told by referee Chris Pollock that the law didn't allow it.
 
Only those going off for blood or a concussion test are allowed to be replaced by a substituted member of the starting XV, meaning the Crusaders were forced to send replacement halfback Leon Fukofuka into the unfamiliar position of flanker.

The Chiefs went on to score another try through Sam Cane for a 27-21 victory and, while he wasn't suggesting the Prinsep injury controversy was the cause of the defeat, coach Blackadder was critical of a law which appears to defy logic.
"I think common sense needs to prevail here," Blackadder said.
"If Reed had been able to say 'I've had a head knock, I need to come off for a concussion test', we would have been able to replace him with Tim. But the fact that he was knocked unconscious meant we weren't able to do that.
"The law needs to be amended straight away because player welfare has to come first and teams shouldn't be penalised for players being knocked unconscious."
Blackadder, who will this week prepare his side for the visit of a Blues team on a high from their 33-31 victory of the defending champion Highlanders, said the law as it stood was vulnerable to gamesmanship.
He said there was nothing stopping Prinsep's replacement Fukuoka making a tackle and complaining of a sore head which would have resulted in a concussion test and Boys coming straight back on.
 
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What a crock of shit. Why should a player being knocked out be any different to a player breaking their arm? The reason the blood and concussion tests can be replaced is because they are possibly temporary. (I'm unsure what happens if a player fails a concussion test though and maybe that is where the oddity is)
His last comment is pure crap. There is something to stop that happening. It is called sportsmanship and is no different to players creating blood injuries for a tactical subbing.

SammyC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crucial" data-cid="561555" data-time="1456699814">
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This from the Herald
 
His last comment is pure crap. There is something to stop that happening. It is called sportsmanship and is no different to players creating blood injuries for a tactical subbing.
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Calm down... he didn't do it, just mentioned the loophole in an interview when discussing the law.

Crucial

According to the Laws of Rugby (3.13) a substituted player can only return for blood injury or injured Front Rower. No mention of the concussion.
 
3.11 Temporary Replacement - Head Injury assessment only says that a player undergoing assessment shall be replaced even if all of the substitutes/replacements have been used.
 
To me that means that Boys could only come back once all the bench had been used.

Crucial

I suspect that some of the confusion came from the substitution laws as applied in NZ from ITM Cup down where any injury can be replaced by an already subbed player.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561556" data-time="1456700303">
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Calm down... he didn't do it, just mentioned the loophole in an interview when discussing the law.
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It's not a loophole, it is against the Laws for Fukuoka to do anything against the spirit of the game, which feigning a head injury to get a better sub on would certainly fall under.

SammyC

boooooring....
 
How about we discuss the game, not something that Toddy said in an interview that annoyed you
 
 
You should start a new thread for conversations with yourself about rugby laws.

Crucial

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561562" data-time="1456701551">
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boooooring....
 
How about we discuss the game, not something that Toddy said in an interview that annoyed you
 
 
You should start a new thread for conversations with yourself about rugby laws.
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Just to be clear, I simply made comment. You started the discussion.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="561562" data-time="1456701551">
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boooooring....
 
How about we discuss the game, not something that Toddy said in an interview that annoyed you
 
 
You should start a new thread for conversations with yourself about rugby laws.
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Just because you're okay with cheating, doesn't mean we have to be.

SammyC

Back to the rugby.
 
I thought Andy Ellis had his best game in a couple of years,
 
Last year he looked tired and slow to get to breakdowns, which I blamed on his stint in Japan. 
 
Only one game in but promising signs.

Bovidae

In the corresponding game in 2014 the Chiefs ended up with Nathan Harris playing at openside. This was the game that Afeaki and Retallick clashed heads forcing both off the field. Then Retallick's replacement (Koloamatangi) was injured 7 mins later and the Chiefs only had one forward sub left - Harris. He played the last 14 mins on the side of the scrum.
 
In this game the Crusaders reserve TH prop (Alaalatoa) never even played so Blackadder could have also rearranged his forward pack. Fukofuka wasn't the only option available.

pukunui

Thought the saders over did the kicking at times. They tried the attacking cross kick a few times which didnt come off, one of which was rubbish and put them under pressure. Hopefully they can refine that. Really hope Ngatai can stay fit this year to push for the ABs midfield. Imo he is the closest thing to Conrad we have in that he seems to be an intelligent player. Pair him with someone with a bit of punch and the AB midfield might not be such a big hole.

The Silver Fern

Crusaders v Chiefs