All Blacks vs Springboks I
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I was impressed with lomax last week and I rate de groot. The props were awful this week especially the replacements.
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@nta said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
We are just turning over the ball way too much.
Mainly due to support players not being tight enough to the ball runner.
Or vice versa.
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Everyone in the shed is talking to someone else…except akira, just standing there, was hoping someone would be getting him reved up
Both he and Rieko off the boil. Perhaps some non-rugby issue?
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@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@bayimports said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
line out is woeful
Except Blackadder, he’s taking them but tj doesn’t have the pass to feed the backline from the front of the lineout
Lack of tall timber at back limiting our options. Front ball is banker but makes Boks's life too easy on defence. Is throwing to 5 considered too risky?
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Karl T penalised
This was only scrum penalty that was clear to me. It was down to Patty T who slipped off KT's backside and caused ST to twist. Own goal. Previous scrum with Scottie there Karl and Samisoni did a number on Koch but ref penalised Ofa for being attached and thus going sideways.
It's hard to push on the thin air between Marx and Kitshoff?
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@billy-tell said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Flush the dunny.
Laurie Mains. Showing why he coached at 65%.
Backs very poor, Jordie excepted. The box kicks fielding on the left wing was abysmal. Rieko utterly anonymous. Reece and Mounga will be happy with that.
Forwards: props poor, replacements even worse. Akira almost as absent as his brother.
That was a good reality test. Thankfully we have Jordie.
Lots went wrong in this Test and yet the ABs still won. We used to lose games like this. It suggests to me the character of this squad is getting better. Still a lot to work on though.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Ofa T worst performance in years. Hard coming off an injury.
Ref penalising Moody for anything.
Our scrum is shit at the moment.
We didn't challenge their lineout for the last 50 minutes.
Scrum would have been fine and several penalties to us with different ref. Need tall timber at back against Boks.
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@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chimoaus Yep. Him at 13 and Rieko at 11 would have been nice.
With the performance of Havili tonight, we might need ALB at 12.
I think we looked off in so many areas that few came out looking good
I think the one player whose stock went up the most with me was Blackadder. I already had Jordie as the first place 15. I hope the coaches will also start to question their assumptions about some of the 'strengths' of certain players (i.e., Bridge). We also need to start working on bringing through some young props.
But he was at 7. Are you tempted to replace Akira with him, bring on Paps and rest Ardie? Don't think they will rest or bench Ardie due to captaincy.
Would have been a perfect game for Dalton and Luke.
I’d go Akira, Luke and Ardie at seven, with Dalton on the bench.
Paps edges it over Ardie for me at 7.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
If Bridge gets selected after that performance though…
I'm still staggered Jordan got pulled. He was brilliant attacking (like usual). Bridge doesn't score the try outside Codie
And losing that ball in the tackle from Kolisi, is understandable, that was some hit. Kolisi looked like a beast in the highlights I have seen so far.
His best game in 2021.
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@pakman can’t leave out blackadder on form
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@majorrage said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
and apply possibly the worst interpretation of advantages I've ever seen. For a knock on, when the advantage is 10 metres forwards with momentum, that's advantage over. Also, when the AB's have the ball in any spot in the opposition 22 .. never blow your whistle to go back for the penalty. Ever. Thats when holes exist which we want to take advantage. Sorry mate, you looked out of your depth with a complete lack of feel for the game.
EXACTLY. Lucky Mrs. Pakman was out with the abuse being hurled at the box.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
A lot of scrum penalties against us when we are going marginally forward, this year. What's the story?
Poor refereeing.
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A few comments:
Boks loosies were better than us at breakdown. Really upset our rhythm.
ABs kept making half breaks but Boks seemed to have worked out how to block/disrupt the subsequent pass. Whatever happened to never pass to someone in a worse position? That's why a couple of times BBBR held on rather than going through with the rehearsed move.
There's a lot to like about Havili, but he doesn't seem good at straightening the line. That really aids the defence as ABs become lateral. Tuapea seems better at it.
My hunch is ABs got very wound up by 100th game nature of match and that tension led to poor skill execution. I expect a much freer performance next week.
A win's a win.
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nostrildamusreplied to pakman on 25 Sept 2021, 17:44 last edited by nostrildamus 25 Sept 2021, 17:48
I gotta say now I have actually seen the game on tv, that might have been rather good as a spectator. Very tense stuff. But not much mention of the Boks on here I notice, their forwards outplayed ours, (even Moody was outmuscled but Taylor I thought was good, kudos to Blackadder for tackling out wide even in the last key minute, still looks like a 6 to me), for the Boks Kolisi, Vermuelen and the locks stood out for me. Even Etzebeth, who when he used to play the ABS, had the impact of Sacha Cohen's Brüno Gehard, was powerful and energetic. Pollard had his usual can be flustered game, faf has swallowed too many hair products and hard to judge the rest of the backline as they were just there for the free seats. But back to Marx, how the hell does spray on the outside of his right boot make his leg instantly heal? Is he cybernetic?
Tactics were left in the shed:
Seriously, when we did to the Boks what they did to us all night, kick it behind them, they sure looked fragile. If the ball is greasy and your 9 and 10s are slow or near invisible (Beauden, until the last 5-10 minutes, and showed he can actually run and pass at speed) and your midfield has no impact and stops at 12, why keep trying to run it? I hardly saw Beuden or Rieko, BBBR had hardly any impact, SB toiled hard (and I was surprised he was replaced), Bridge wasn't quite as bad as I had been led to believe (still below par) and Jordie was not quite so perfect (but wow his kicking and clutch catch 90 seconds to go) but if we have such a slow passing halfback and the Boks are so happy to live offline we will never get that ball away. TJP, you can't start against that sort of line speed/living on the edge of offside team.But well done Boks, if you knew what to do with the ball apart from penalties I think you would have won. Yes you were a man down for a yellow card but that is a wing and you only use them once or twice a game.
Jordan was a fragile tinarse, but that is just the way he plays, was lucky a pass into nothingness was not important. Oh and two drops by Akira, I could understand the first but the second was unforgiveable. The ball must have been extra greasy, that is when you shelve your open running game and try option B. Which brings me to the bench.
DMac passed far quicker and directly than BB, Sotutu was huge, great tackling and seizing opportunities, Patrick was a quick-moving rock in defense and Weber passed quickly and well, and sniped, effortlessly finding a hole or two. Best bench I think I have seen this year (dishonorable lack of mention to Ofa who just isn't ready for this tempo or skill level yet).
Forcing the Boks to turn. The Boks really did not look good going backwards with the ball behind them, they really did not want the ball at all. But the lineout was their plaything, they got the scrum penalties and again, I thought they played really well to their strengths. And we let them. Stupid stupid play.
And this is not aimed at Jordie but his entering the line all the time off the set piece is damn obvious, we were a forward down at the start by continually putting a forward (usually Ardie) in the backs. Shit, they're paid to run and pass and find holes, trust them for once.
Where was the leadership, what happened to BBBR, I'm still worried about the tactics. When Plumtree at halftime reckons it is just speed to rucks I have to ask why you have a forward in the backline that you are not using...I am still worried about the tactics. -
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo Springboks must cut out the kicking. All Blacks were there for the taking. Kwagga, Etsebeth and Fat Frans played really well. Hope they learn from this and improve on this performance.
That’s the only reason you stayed in the game. They were just playing force back. They weren’t there to play rugby. It was a disgrace to the game.
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@hooroo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@oompb said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo Springboks must cut out the kicking. All Blacks were there for the taking. Kwagga, Etsebeth and Fat Frans played really well. Hope they learn from this and improve on this performance.
That’s the only reason you stayed in the game. They were just playing force back. They weren’t there to play rugby. It was a disgrace to the game.
Meh, it's legal, is how everyone played not that long ago. So I think it's not great entertainment, but it's still rugby. The shit that really needs stamping on, is the cheating to get rests. Faking injuries is against the laws, and spirit, of the game. It's disgusting and the boks should be ashamed. But after ranting Rassie, I've realised they lying and faking are obviously fine for them. Rugby needs to play stoppage time like in game, if you're down, tough shit play carries on. Give them a few seconds to get playing, otherwise free kick to opposition. If it's a front row and scrum, then they have 30 seconds to either get him up or replace him.
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That was a really tough test match. Probably a harder test match to watch than play in!
It’s disappointing that our standards drop when we come up against such that is in your face with such physicality.
It shows that while we have made progress this year, we shone familiar frailties when faced with a side exerting a physical pressure game on us.
Perhaps the occasion of 100th test got to some players, especially ones who haven’t played the boks before.
You can say it is good that we won when playing poorly but the fact we knew what was coming and we didn’t counter it very well at all, shows that this side still has a way to go to be able to win 3 high pressure knockout games in 3 weeks if we want to regain the RWC.
I believe we will be better next week. The 100th match out of they way, we have experienced the boks and I am sure the debrief will be pretty brutal.
It will be a good test to see if we can learn, adapt and implement how we want to play next week.
Savea showed his inexperience at captaincy today and maybe his unsuitability as well. Turning down easy 3’s in a tight game where our lineout and attack isn’t working as well as it can, is criminal in my view.
Plus he is not asking enough of refs from what I saw. He may be a great leader during the week, which we don’t see but he wasn’t very good on the field today.
If I was George Bridge, I would that my union rep along to it to shield him from the fury that should be coming😀
Good to be renewing hostilities with the boks - i had forgotten how awful they are to play against at times!
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@stargazer Well said. A win against the World Champs without 2 of our best players. Great result.
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@african-monkey said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@stargazer Well said. A win against the World Champs without 2 of our best players. Great result.
I would've said 5 of our best players, Whitelock, Smith, Mounga, Cane, ALB. I would be confident in saying that we're building good depth if this team learns and adjusts for next week.
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@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
A poor AB performance but we dogged a win when we really didn't deserve
So SA deserved to win?
Neither team deserved the win, but someone had to, was poor enough from us it won't paper over any cracks either.
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@majorrage said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Also, when the AB's have the ball in any spot in the opposition 22 .. never blow your whistle to go back for the penalty. Ever. Thats when holes exist which we want to take advantage. Sorry mate, you looked out of your depth with a complete lack of feel for the game.
Ha, I thought the exact thing st the time, most regs in the 22 or just outside just keep going until the other team infringes again or a try is scored, not this guy...lack of awareness of how to let a game flow, wanted to be I control, without knowing the boks were controlling the pace of the game.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
kudos to Blackadder for tackling out wide even in the last key minute, still looks like a 6 to me)
Blackadder is definitely primarily a 6 who can cover 7 and 8. I doubt he'd played any time at 7 for 2-3 years prior to Razor needing to run him there during Super rugby this year.
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Boks seemed to have a lot of players loitering in the kick reception zone from their high kicks. I'd really like to know how many of them were onside. Australasian refs give quite a lot of penalties for offsides from kicks.
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Most disappointing thing for me was our set-piece.
Biggest mistake was not taking penalty goals when on offer, and building score board pressure.
Defence was pretty good.
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@tim yeah I think he pinged them for it once (Marx late in the game) so often thier winger was just in front of Faf.
Yea SA didnt really threaten with ball in hand.
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I don't think I've felt those emotions since the 2011 final. Hope and anticipation early that descended into frustration fear and a sense we would lose the game. Getting our noses in front late and winning at the end with scarcely a moment to enjoy the victory. I hope that next week closer resembles my emotional ride during the 2015 final....
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
So how can we prepare for next week via selections? Not that many choices. I imaginge Foster would face a bit of pressure if he picks Bridge to start again but he did keep him on the paddock a bit longer than I expected.
He's not my favourite player and he had a shocker especially in the area of expertise in which he was picked.
But I'd kind of back him to sort that and keep him there as the Bok tactics aren't changing.
He should have been dragged last night, not Jordan, but I can see him playing again next week.
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@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Most disappointing thing for me was our set-piece.
Biggest mistake was not taking penalty goals when on offer, and building score board pressure.
Defence was pretty good.
Idea of going for the try was good then had to be continued as the Boks were under penalty pressure. Pretty sure the idea is to get a try ahead to make them play. They don't change if you are just a penalty ahead as we saw.
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@crucial said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Most disappointing thing for me was our set-piece.
Biggest mistake was not taking penalty goals when on offer, and building score board pressure.
Defence was pretty good.
Idea of going for the try was good then had to be continued as the Boks were under penalty pressure. Pretty sure the idea is to get a try ahead to make them play. They don't change if you are just a penalty ahead as we saw.
But kick our pens and we would have been up 8....
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@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I assume Mo'unga will wear the 22 jersey next week; he only comes out of MIQ on Tuesday. Really a short prep time for a test match, even though his hotel room looks like half a gym on his instagram photos. The question is, who'll lose his spot. Surely not Jordie, so it will be between BB and Dmac.
If RM comes in.
DMac gives us better coverage on the bench than RM.
The latter starts or misses out for me.
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Loved Q's emotion in that final penalty.
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@derpus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
So here's my 'Dave playing the long game' theory.
Step 1: Rennie kicks off his first year going all out against the ABs to see if he can figure them out. Finishes up with a win in his last game.
Step 2: bait NZ into keeping Foster on until after the next RWC. Two games at Eden Park? no way he's winning the Bledisloe back this year, but he can still come out of the series with a net gain and shackle the ABs with a clearly inept coach.
Step 3: World Champs come to town. Time to pull out the big guns (literally - Kerevi) and see if he can knock off the current world cup holders. Step 3 complete. Twice.
Clearly well on our way to a third RWC title.
You've got dryer powder than us.
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@pukunui said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Absolutely pathetic performance from the ABs. I honestly can’t remember a worse performance across 80min. So glad we already extended the contract of the coach who got them up for the big occasion.
Hopefully that is George Bridge’s last test. Ben Blair mk2.
He was meant to be the high ball guy. If he can’t do that, what does he do?ABs Very lucky Boks showed no interest in playing rugby. Even doing that they should have won. Those who said they were going to be easy beats are looking pretty stupid right now.
Sorry, must have woken up to a different reality ... Who won?
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@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
For all the shit Patrick got this week , he was great today. Very physical
Hear hear
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
If we can play that badly and win, I hate to think what would happen if we play well.
Well imagine what a full strength Bok team would do...
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@derpus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
So here's my 'Dave playing the long game' theory.
Step 1: Rennie kicks off his first year going all out against the ABs to see if he can figure them out. Finishes up with a win in his last game.
Step 2: bait NZ into keeping Foster on until after the next RWC. Two games at Eden Park? no way he's winning the Bledisloe back this year, but he can still come out of the series with a net gain and shackle the ABs with a clearly inept coach.
Step 3: World Champs come to town. Time to pull out the big guns (literally - Kerevi) and see if he can knock off the current world cup holders. Step 3 complete. Twice.
Clearly well on our way to a third RWC title.
I'd start organising the street parade now if I were you.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@steven-harris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
World Rugby really needs to look at these continuing stoppages, you get penalised for a delayed put in at the scrum time so why not delaying walking to a lineout..?
But but… he was holding his head…
The other thing WR need to crack down on with the reffing is the players in front of the ball. The Boks are the masters of it and there were at least 3 tonight that an AB defender was impeded. If I want to watch NFL, I’ll turn it to ESPN.
Are you including the execution of the box kick?
Just before they kick Boks place a player who Faf runs behind to kick.
Blocker's initial positioning is fine, but running behind him must raise some questions about legality.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
The other thing WR need to crack down on with the reffing is the players in front of the ball. The Boks are the masters of it and there were at least 3 tonight that an AB defender was impeded. If I want to watch NFL, I’ll turn it to ESPN.
Absolutely.
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@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@steven-harris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
World Rugby really needs to look at these continuing stoppages, you get penalised for a delayed put in at the scrum time so why not delaying walking to a lineout..?
But but… he was holding his head…
The other thing WR need to crack down on with the reffing is the players in front of the ball. The Boks are the masters of it and there were at least 3 tonight that an AB defender was impeded. If I want to watch NFL, I’ll turn it to ESPN.
Aaand the other ethically challenged tactic that annoyed me was how they'd jump into the kick receiver's space with no real desire to get the ball (not just the Vermulen incident, where at least they got penalised).
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@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Error ridden game - full of terrible catching and terrible passing.
I'm going to give our boys a bit of benefit of the doubt that the ball must have been slippery in the humidity (was it humid?).
Surely it was too awful to simply be incompetence by almost everybody?
Apparently between 70-80 at around 24deg:
http://www.bom.gov.au/products/IDQ60801/IDQ60801.94294.shtmlVery similar to us despite being 1100km north. Maybe a degree warmer and does not feel at all humid here. @mariner4life may be better placed to give anecdotal evidence.
Post 1705 of 1925