New Zealand under 20
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="590116" data-time="1466452011">
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<p>So...England U20 vs Ireland U20 in the final. Changing of the guard...?</p>
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<p>yep, we are farked!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="590118" data-time="1466453754">
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<p>What are we? Fiji?<br><br>
Yeah right, it rains heaps in NZ and schoolboy rugby fields aren't the perfect draining sand based ones that they play on here. Should be one of the best prepared wet weather teams.</p>
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<p>Should be but aren't.</p> -
<p>Moala-Liava'a was probably the best on show against Wales. He really should've had a bigger role in the team in pool play.</p>
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<p>Even in a dominate performance, Mitch Jacobson still looked pretty poor. Someone like Uini Fetalaiga blows this guy out the water, but didn't even get a trial with the squad.</p>
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<p>That pass by Taumateine to Makene to set up a try was pretty neat. It was like an anticipation throw in football.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Dice" data-cid="590408" data-time="1466559515">
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<p><strong>Moala-Liava'a was probably the best on show against Wales. He really should've had a bigger role in the team in pool play.</strong></p>
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<p>Even in a dominate performance, Mitch Jacobson still looked pretty poor. Someone like Uini Fetalaiga blows this guy out the water, but didn't even get a trial with the squad.</p>
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<p>That pass by Taumateine to Makene to set up a try was pretty neat. It was like an anticipation throw in football.</p>
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<p>Maybe, but not at no. 8. Mikaele-Tu'u was clearly the best forward during the pool games and fully deserved his starts.</p>
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<p>Agree about Mitch Jacobson.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="590450" data-time="1466564162">
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<p>Maybe, but not at no. 8. Mikaele-Tu'u was clearly the best forward during the pool games and fully deserved his starts.</p>
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<p>Agree about Mitch Jacobson.</p>
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<p>Agreed, but there is always the blindside spot. I don't think Luke Jacobson showed very much either. Even if Luke did a bit behind the scenes, he could always move to openside ahead of Mitch.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="590116" data-time="1466452011"><p>So...England U20 vs Ireland U20 in the final. Changing of the guard...?</p></blockquote>
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No surprise to see England there. Ireland have a great crop this year. Not only some very good athletes but technically excellent players. Scott Robertson said they didn't want to play any rugby against the baby blacks, which makes you wonder what match he was watching. <br><br><br>
Considering only Jacob Stockdale has any pro 12 experience, it's not surprising they started slowly. England have premiership players and look physically more developed, with the exception of Ireland's Andrew Porter. <br><br><br>
So to answer your question. The gap is narrowing between Australia, South Africa and the rest but NZ have nothing to worry about for a while yet. they're technically miles ahead of the rest. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mimic" data-cid="590531" data-time="1466584472"><p>i never thought much of the jacobsons tbh.. <br>
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also, with regards to scrums.. the schoolboy rules (in nz) for scrums render them useless i reckon.. so i can see why our props take a while to develop..<br></p></blockquote>
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It comes down to the attitude towards scrummaging IMO. Scrums are more important in the NY because the game is slower, wetter with less scoring opportunities etc. Therefore more emphasis is put on winning penalties to score. <br><br><br>
I'm sure the same schoolboy rules apply world wide. The problem with the NZ U20s is that to me it looks like they've picked props on size or ball carrying ability rather than scrummaging ability. Ireland used to do that but never had a great scrum so they had to focus more on the technical side of things. Less focus on size and ball carrying. They spoke about getting under the NZ scrum last week. <br><br><br>
Going back to my point about attitude. Look at the Georgians. They love scrummaging and have numerous props throughout Europe. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="profitius" data-cid="590539" data-time="1466587990">
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<p>No surprise to see England there. Ireland have a great crop this year. Not only some very good athletes but technically excellent players. Scott Robertson said they didn't want to play any rugby against the baby blacks, which makes you wonder what match he was watching.<br><br><br>
Considering only Jacob Stockdale has any pro 12 experience, it's not surprising they started slowly. England have premiership players and look physically more developed, with the exception of Ireland's Andrew Porter.<br><br><br>
So to answer your question. The gap is narrowing between Australia, South Africa and the rest but NZ have nothing to worry about for a while yet. they're technically miles ahead of the rest.</p>
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<p>England aren't that big/physically developed this year. Certainly have a bit of size in the backline with Mallinder/Williams playing 10 and 12 which was enforced with the first choice 10 injured in the first game. The pack though were much smaller than Oz in the pool game (think it was by 65kg). They've benefited from the availability of a few AP players, as you say, but Haag is also a big step up from Callard on the coaching side. They really were poor in the 6N and the pack is mostly the same here.</p>
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<p>Looking forward to the final. I've been impressed by Ireland, they look a decent side and it should be close on Saturday.</p> -
<p>From the Word Rugby judiciary:</p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Malo Tuitama (New Zealand) - two-week suspension</span></span></strong></p>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">New Zealand's Malo Tuitama was cited for an alleged breach of Law 10.4(a) (striking with the head) and/or Law 10.4(k) (dangerous charging) during their U20 Championship match with Wales on 20 June, 2016. The player appeared at a hearing before independent Judicial Officer Mike Hamlin (England) on 22 June, 2016.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The player admitted the charging offence but denied the striking offence. Having heard all the evidence, the Judicial Officer upheld the citing under both Law 10.4(a) and 10.4(k). </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The Judicial Officer determined that the offences warranted low-end entry point sanctions in both cases which are four weeks and two weeks respectively. The player received a 50 per cent reduction on both sanctions which will run concurrently. The net effect for the player is that he is suspended for two weeks. </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">He will not be eligible to play in New Zealand’s final match of the World Rugby U20 Championship 2016 and his suspension will thereafter remain in place until midnight on 3 July, 2016. </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The player has 48 hours to appeal the outcome.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;">The full written decision will be <span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.worldrugby.org/documents/judicial-decisions'>here</a></span> when available.</span></div>
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<p>By the way, the Georgian player who bit Mitchell Jacobson has also been cited and suspended:</p>
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<p><strong><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Gurami Kandaurishvili (Georgia) – nine-week suspension</span></span></strong></p>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">Georgia’s Gurami Kandaurishvili was cited for an act of foul play contrary to Law 10.4(m), allegedly biting an opponent, in their U20 Championship match with New Zealand on 7 June, 2016. The player appeared at a hearing before independent Judicial Officer Mike Hamlin (England) on 9 June, 2016. </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The player did not accept that he had committed the alleged offence. Having heard evidence from New Zealand’s Mitchell Jacobson, reviewed medical evidence before him and reviewed the video footage in addition to hearing from Kandaurishvili and his representative, the Judicial Officer determined that the player had committed an act of foul play as alleged. </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The Judicial Officer determined this was low-end offending which carries an entry point of 12 weeks. The Judicial Officer found no aggravating features. Mitigating factors were found to be present which justified a reduction in the sanction from 12 weeks to nine weeks.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">In the context of the U20 Championship this equates to four matches, the player is therefore suspended for the remainder of the tournament. Based on the player’s known future playing schedule at this time, the remaining five-week suspension will be served during the period from 17 September to midnight 16 October, 2016. He is free to resume playing on 17 October, 2016. </span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The player has 48 hours to appeal the outcome.</span></span></div>
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<div><span style="font-size:14px;"><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">The full written decision is available </span><span style="font-family:arial, sans-serif;"><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.worldrugby.org/documents/judicial-decisions'>here</a></span><span style="font-family:arial, helvetica, sans-serif;">.</span></span></div>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bobily" data-cid="590726" data-time="1466644580">
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<p>Peter Umaga-Jensen has joined the side (I think because Lowe injured himself?), so Tuitama's suspension should mean he gets some game time</p>
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<p>Did they fly him over just for that one game? Must mean Trainor is not available either. Or maybe he was brought over to cover for Trainor?</p>
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<p>Yes, Lowe ended up at the bottom of a pile of bodies after being tackled and stayed on the ground - grabbing his leg - afterwards. Looked like hamstring injury, but haven't read/heard anything.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="590741" data-time="1466645908"><p>Did they fly him over just for that one game? Must mean Trainor is not available either. Or maybe he was brought over to cover for Trainor?<br>
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Yes, Lowe ended up at the bottom of a pile of bodies after being tackled and stayed on the ground - grabbing his leg - afterwards. Looked like hamstring injury, but haven't read/heard anything.</p></blockquote>
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I forgot about Trainor. That could make more sense. -
<p><strong>NZ team</strong> to play Australia for 5th place (Sunday 26 June from 3.35am on SKY Sports 1):</p>
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<div>1. Ayden Johnstone 2. Leni Apisai (c) 3. Sosefo Kautai 4. Quinten Strange 5. Hamish Dalzell 6. Luke Jacobson 7. Mitchell Jacobson 8. Marino Mikaele-Tu’u 9. Sam Nock 10. Stephen Perofeta 11. Jonah Lowe 12. Jordie Barrett 13. Patelesio Tomkinson 14. Caleb Makene 15. Shaun Stevenson</div>
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<div>Reserves: 16. Asafo Aumua 17. Sean Paranihi 18. Alex Fidow 19. Hapakuki Moala Liava’a 20. ? 21. Jonathan Taumateine 22. TJ Va’a 23. Peter Umaga Jensen</div>
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<div>Changes made:</div>
<div>Prop Ayden Johnstone replaces Sean Paranihi who drops to the bench, Marino Mikaele-Tu’u reclaims the number 8 jersey from Hapakuki Moala Liava’a, while Peter Umaga Jensen will start from the bench, having flown over to join the squad as injury cover.</div>
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<div>It looks like Umaga Jensen has replaced Malo Tuitama on the bench.</div>
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<div><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.allblacks.com/News/29368/nz-u20-ready-for-showdown-with-australia'>http://www.allblacks.com/News/29368/nz-u20-ready-for-showdown-with-australia</a></div>
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<div>(The line-up has Mikaele-Tu'u both starting and on the bench; unsure who has replaced him on the bench.)</div> -
<p>Two hours later, the All Blacks account posts an update on Twitter:</p>
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<p>#NZU20 UPDATE | Jonah Lowe is replaced at 11 by Peter Umaga-Jensen with Orbyn Leger coming in at number 23.</p>
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<p>What do they know now that they didn't know 2 hours ago? Weird. Still unclear who's at 20.</p>
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<p>New line-up:</p>
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<div>1. Ayden Johnstone 2. Leni Apisai (c) 3. Sosefo Kautai 4. Quinten Strange 5. Hamish Dalzell 6. Luke Jacobson 7. Mitchell Jacobson 8. Marino Mikaele-Tu’u 9. Sam Nock 10. Stephen Perofeta 11. Peter Umaga-Jensen 12. Jordie Barrett 13. Patelesio Tomkinson 14. Caleb Makene 15. Shaun Stevenson</div>
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<div>Reserves: 16. Asafo Aumua 17. Sean Paranihi 18. Alex Fidow 19. Hapakuki Moala Liava’a 20. ? 21. Jonathan Taumateine 22. TJ Va’a 23. Orbyn Leger</div> -
<p>The World Rugby site has Isaia Walker-Leawere at 19 and Moala-Liava'a at 20. Which would seem to make more sense.</p>
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<p>Maybe they were hoping Jonah Lowe would come right before the game? Either way, glad that Peter Umaga-Jensen is getting a start.</p>
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<p>What was the point of bringing Leger along? I don't think they've even used him?</p> -
<p>Great to see Peter Umaga Jensen selected, though Ive never seen him play 11. Usually a Fullback or Centre.</p>
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="bobily" data-cid="591332" data-time="1466808211">
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<p>The World Rugby site has Isaia Walker-Leawere at 19 and Moala-Liava'a at 20. Which would seem to make more sense.</p>
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<p>Maybe they were hoping Jonah Lowe would come right before the game? Either way, glad that Peter Umaga-Jensen is getting a start.</p>
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<p><strong>What was the point of bringing Leger along?</strong> I don't think they've even used him?</p>
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<p>Yeah, and what was the point of including Trainor in the squad? Emerson could have made a big difference. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm still annoyed about his non-selection.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="591378" data-time="1466833316">
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<p>Yeah, and what was the point of including Trainor in the squad? Emerson could have made a big difference. I know I'm repeating myself, but I'm still annoyed about his non-selection.</p>
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<p>I'm no Emerson fluffer (he's got the Lindersfarne black mark against him of course ;)) but it was weird that he didn't make this team - he was one of the top 3 in the game the team actually won against the convicts and he seems to suit wing better than Lowe (as one example of a player who made the team ahead of him).</p>
