P and all that jazz
-
I think i am removed enough now to understand my own drug use. Boredom. Not a general weakness in my self confidence or my feelings about myself. <br><br>
I had not at that time been in a bad relationship, been on the downward spiral or suffered from any mental illness. <br><br>
I was enjoying being young and experimenting. I was never a daily user but i used often, mostly when partying. I could have a good time simply drinking or nothing at all. The simple fact was i enjoyed the sensation of being on something. When life got serious and i needed to stop i did. <br><br>
I can not comment on too many other but my circle of friends all used and only one came out of it an addict. In that circle i had a friend that now heads up one of the biggest banks in AU/NZ, a surgeon, a policeman and a fireman. We all just had fun for a couple of years and then let it go. Addict mate works in timber yards mostly. Is still the same guy he always was but just didnt head in the same direction as everyone else. <br><br>
Would they have been as successful had they continued? I seriously doubt it but i dont think any of them are weak for having done some of this and some of that.<br><br>
Sent from my SM-G925I using Tapatalk -
<p>I was looking at the (some sanctimonious) posts from people who have never tried any drugs and was thinking it was poor to take that view, until I realised that I hold that view on most Class A - heroin, crack etc, so it would be calling the pot the kettle black.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I've given a few things a go, and really enjoyed myself on the heavier stuff. Of course, I don't do it now (once in the last 10 years I think), but it's never bothered me what others do. Except for weed. I know that goes against the grain of it, but there is something about people that use weed a lot that really pisses me off. It comes down to a few things, mostly (like other people), experiences of being around those that partook. The thing about weed (in NZ anyway), that really pissed me off was that there seemed to some sort of necessity to turn into some sort of trashy lower class bogan when becoming a user. The ending of all sentences with bro, speaking slower, the ridiculous little giggle which suggests you are some sort of chilled-out-surfy mofo. And then of course, the need to talk about pot incessantly, like it's not only a drug, it's a hobby and a lifestyle. Denis Leary talks about it in some of his stand up, and he's bang on. I watched quite a few mates go down this path (I did grow up in Te Puke), and stuff all of them got through it.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Weed may have some sort of view as the drug to be the most tolerated, but it's the one that has taken the most people away from me (emotionally and intellectually, not physically).</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="558987" data-time="1455592583">
<div><br><p><span style="color:rgb(37,37,37);font-family:sans-serif;">"Drugs are not what we think they are. Drug addiction is not what we have been told it is. The drug war is not what our politicians have sold it as for one hundred years and counting"</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Indeed</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ben Goldacre is sort of my go to guy for debunking bullshit in medicine & the press (Flat Earth News is a fantastic read) -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/'>http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>"In the case of cocaine, there is an even more striking precedent for evidence being ignored: during the early 1990s the World Health Organisation conducted what is probably the largest ever study of global cocaine use. In March 1995 they released a briefing kit which summarised their conclusions, with some tantalising bullet points."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>he then lists all the findings, vasically most of the press is bullshit</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"At the point where mild cocaine use was described in positive tones, the Americans presumably blew some kind of outrage fuse. This report was never published, because just two months after the press briefing was released, at the 48th World Health Assembly, the US representative to WHO threatened to withdraw US funding for all their research projects and interventions unless the organisation “dissociated itself from the conclusions of the study†and cancelled the publication."</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
<div>
<p><em><strong>Without exception? How big was your sample size, roughly?</strong></em><br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm assuming he means "everyone I thought was stupid or a fluffybunny". So thats everyone.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Tho' he was working in finance. And was friends with them. So I'm leaning towards believing him.</p> -
Apologies - as I'm on the "night shift" can't respond to individual posts. <br>
Raz - I think that pretty much sums up my teenage years, plus perhaps an inquisitiveness to fit into different social groups and drugs were an easy way in. Also being a student I had waay too much time on my hands!<br><br>
Paek - yeah that's why I put "edgy" there in inverted commas. I wouldn't put most recreational drugs in there, but it's more what it might lead to and the kind of individuals you might end up mixing with to buy the stuff. <br><br>
I always thought of herion and crack as too edgy for me and never went there in my youth. Just something a bit desperate about it that never appealed to me, plus more highly addictive.<br><br>
Baron - if ever a drug wasn't suited to a certain type of individual then I think Coke and finance industry (especially back in the day) is pretty high up there. Competitive, compulsive, over-confident personalities, coupled with long hours and huge stress - no wonder so many have burned out, jacked it in and moved out to the country.<br><br>
NTA - yeah they can laser their tits off if they want, as long they don't expect the government to pay for it! -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="559012" data-time="1455601995"><p>
Interesting. I have found drugs on people from all walks of life, but I never found ice on anyone other than a person on the downward spiral. Do you have any stats or links backing your assertion that many people lead normal lives on Ice? Anecdotally it does not appear that way to me.<br><br>
Meth/Ice/P users all have a look that any Police Officer/Ambo/Doctor recognises, but one that I don't have the words to explain - <strong>almost like their body is eating itself and their soul knows it but can't do a damn thing. </strong>Often I look at a person's old mug shots chronologically and the change in their physical appearance is stark. Sometimes when I give a shit, it is heartbreaking.</p></blockquote>
<br>
Haunting turn of phrase Horse. -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crazy Horse" data-cid="559012" data-time="1455601995">
<div>
<p>Interesting. I have found drugs on people from all walks of life, but I never found ice on anyone other than a person on the downward spiral. Do you have any stats or links backing your assertion that many people lead normal lives on Ice? Anecdotally it does not appear that way to me.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Meth/Ice/P users all have a look that any Police Officer/Ambo/Doctor recognises, but one that I don't have the words to explain - almost like their body is eating itself and their soul knows it but can't do a damn thing. Often I look at a person's old mug shots chronologically and the change in their physical appearance is stark. Sometimes when I give a shit, it is heartbreaking.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>As the drug is illegal the world over, it is highly unlikely that will be reliable statistics available.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I did however find this....<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/methamphetamine-facts'>http://www.drugpolicy.org/drug-facts/methamphetamine-facts</a></p>
<p> </p>
<ul><li><span style="margin:0px;color:rgb(102,102,102);"><strong>The proportion of Americans who use methamphetamine on a monthly basis has hovered in the range of 0.2 percent to 0.3 percent since 1999.</strong>Almost 11 million Americans have tried methamphetamine at least once – far fewer than those who have tried inhalants (23 million), psychedelics (34 million), cocaine (34 million), or marijuana (100 million). Of those 10.3 million, only 1.3 million used methamphetamine in the last year; and only 512,000 used it within the last 30 days. The estimated number of semi-regular methamphetamine users in the U.S. (those who use once a month or more) equals less than one quarter of one percent of the population (0.2 percent).</span></li>
</ul><p> </p>
<p>So in America at least, the meth isn't as addictive as the NZ media portrays.... I don't think we have some kind of super drug that they don't have.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The following drugs have the same basic structure as meth and are widely prescribed by doctors the world over. Aderal, Ritalin, Desoxyn. Sure there are some cases of addiction occurring as a result, but it's highly unlikely that doctors would continue prescribing them if it was a high percentage.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And we all know that amphetimines are used commonly by pilots and soldiers during military campaigns.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Crazy... I've only just realised you are cop, of course you are going to see the worst side of the drug. I completely agree that there are people in NZ for whom meth has completely ruined their lives. But my point is, do you think there will be any more such people if it is legalised? I tend to think if we bring things like this out in the open, it will encourage people to seek help for such addictions, not turn them into criminals.</p>
<p> </p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Baron Silas Greenback" data-cid="559020" data-time="1455607576">
<div>
<p>Fact? Really? Where is the research to back up your claim? Because I think it is complete and utter bollox.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>See above.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="559041" data-time="1455616754">
<div>
<p>Indeed</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Ben Goldacre is sort of my go to guy for debunking bullshit in medicine & the press (Flat Earth News is a fantastic read) -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/'>http://www.badscience.net/2009/06/this-is-my-column-this-is-my-column-on-drugs-any-questions/</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p>"In the case of cocaine, there is an even more striking precedent for evidence being ignored: during the early 1990s the World Health Organisation conducted what is probably the largest ever study of global cocaine use. In March 1995 they released a briefing kit which summarised their conclusions, with some tantalising bullet points."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>he then lists all the findings, vasically most of the press is bullshit</p>
<p> </p>
<p>"At the point where mild cocaine use was described in positive tones, the Americans presumably blew some kind of outrage fuse. This report was never published, because just two months after the press briefing was released, at the 48th World Health Assembly, the US representative to WHO threatened to withdraw US funding for all their research projects and interventions unless the organisation “dissociated itself from the conclusions of the study†and cancelled the publication."</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>I'm assuming he means "everyone I thought was stupid or a fluffybunny". So thats everyone.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Tho' he was working in finance. And was friends with them. So I'm leaning towards believing him.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Love Ben Goldacre, </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cookie" data-cid="559042" data-time="1455616895">
<div>
<p>Baron - if ever a drug wasn't suited to a certain type of individual then I think Coke and finance industry (especially back in the day) is pretty high up there. Competitive, compulsive, over-confident personalities, coupled with long hours and huge stress - no wonder so many have burned out, jacked it in and moved out to the country.<br>
</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>Funnily enough although there is certainly access to drugs in the industry the only people I came across who used coke were lower level operational people (the sort who told people they were "In Finance" when they were actually an input clerk who just happened to be working for LloydsTSB rather than, say, British Gas) playing up to the stereotype.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The dealmakers from the investment banking houses favoured speed, and at least in my experience most would tell you it was definitely doing them harm but they took it because it was the only way they could keep going for 20 hours a day. There were very few, if any, who took it because they thought it was cool and, maybe because they tended to be smarter than the average Joe a lot of them could map the impact it was having on their bodies and their relationships. When you're working a hundred hour week though is it the drugs or the lack of balance in your life doing the damage? Who can tell?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And contrary to the stereotype I don't think I ever knew a dealer or trader who used. To be fair those who worked for me were unlikely to tell me if they were but secrets were pretty hard to keep.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Alcohol abuse, on the other hand, was routine and often way out of control.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
<div>
<p>Without exception? How big was your sample size, roughly?<br><br>
Good friends of mine are casual coke users who are stand up people, raising their kids responsibly and holding down senior corporate jobs. They're not "addicts" as such, though that depends whether you draw the distinction.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Dunno... probably 15-20 people I knew well.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And I didn't say they were going off the rails, I was saying they are heading in the wrong direction.</p> -
<p>I don't know of any mates that partake in Class A now. Some smoke dope once or twice every couple of years. All my freinds that used to do tabs and coke in Europe avoid it now which surprises me as I kind of assumed that some of them would burn out in life.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I can definitely tell that some of the spark has gone from the heavier users though. They are fine but just a little affected in my opinion.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I never tried class A purely becasue I loved booze, Cigs and coffee and I knew if I tried, I would have liked, so I never gave myself the opportunity.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I did once dip the tip of my little finger into coke to see what it tasted like and was astounded that people snorted to what I thought tasted like dirt, pretty much. I wanted to see what the fuss was about in terms of intake (rather than effect)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559094" data-time="1455662438">
<div>
<p>I did once dip the tip of my little finger into coke to see what it tasted like and was astounded that people snorted to what I thought tasted like dirt, pretty much. I wanted to see what the fuss was about in terms of intake (rather than effect)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>it's not farking food.. not too many tastebuds in your nose dickhead</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="WillieTheWaiter" data-cid="559134" data-time="1455676666">
<div>
<p>it's not farking food.. not too many tastebuds in your nose dickhead</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-26/health/fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226_1_flavors-taste-buds-smell'>http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/2012-12-26/health/fl-jjps-taste-1226-20121226_1_flavors-taste-buds-smell</a></p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Although it is Wednesday....... mmmmmm?</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="559025" data-time="1455608899">
<div>
<p>Good friends of mine are casual coke users who are stand up people, raising their kids responsibly and holding down senior corporate jobs. They're not "addicts" as such, though that depends whether you draw the distinction.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>yep. I would know a good few people that would fit that exact description.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In fact in NZ the only people I know that can afford coke are those that are doing extremely well in life. ha!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559141" data-time="1455677274">
<div>
<p>His point still stands though... I don't think anyone uses coke for its wonderful taste.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>I still thought there would be some sort of less nasty flavour to it. (Hense why I tasted it)</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559136" data-time="1455676795">
<div>
<p>Where to start.....</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>my point is that it's not an exercise in fine dining...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Hooroo" data-cid="559145" data-time="1455677515">
<div>
<p>I still thought there would be some sort of less nasty flavour to it. (Hense why I tasted it)</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>less nasty flavour than most other sh*t!</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="SammyC" data-cid="559073" data-time="1455653867">
<div>
<p> I completely agree that there are people in NZ for whom meth has completely ruined their lives. But my point is, do you think there will be any more such people if it is legalised? I tend to think if we bring things like this out in the open, it will encourage people to seek help for such addictions, not turn them into criminals.</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong, I agree with some of the things you are saying. The system we have now is not working. I am just passing on some of my observations when it comes to Meth.</p> -
<p>Statistically speaking a good number of ferners would do drugs and some will be addicts. Those addicts would either avoid the thread or post that taking drugs is no big deal and that lots of successful people do it. It us of course possible, but less likely that the addicts might also just lie and say they have never done drugs.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>No regular drug user on here is going to say... 'yeah I do drugs and it is a bad idea and not helping my life'</p>