Springboks v British & Irish Lions III
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@tordah said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
It's probably just the cynic in me, but I've got the feeling the quality of the whole of international rugby has fallen down a cliff compared to the mid 2010's.
Yeah someone commentated on the AB/Oz thread that neither would get past the quarter finalsā¦..but where exactly are all these amazing teams that would knock them out ?
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Timely (and good) piece by Wayne Barnes in The Times:
In 2007 I was the referee of the World Cup quarter-final between France and New Zealand. Between myself and the officials I was in charge of, we missed the forward pass from Damien Traille to FrĆ©dĆ©ric Michalak for the match-winning try. Chris White, the television match official, knew that the ball had gone forward but he couldnāt intervene. At that time, you could only turn to the TMO for the grounding of the ball. That meant Chris had to sit there, inert, and accept the decision. But New Zealand were knocked out, and the forward pass is central to many peopleās memories of that match. As a referee and as a rugby fan, thatās the last thing I want. I was criticised heavily for that decision; but at that time, we had one look at it in real speed and that was it. I was less experienced then but even now, several times a game, I see something on screen and realise Iāve made an incorrect decision and so I say to the players: āIām sorry, I didnāt see it like that.ā Thankfully, for the games and decisions that matter most, the TMO is there and they now have a much wider remit. For all the suggestions of overreliance on the TMO last week we have to accept that safety net as progress. Think back to the 2011 World Cup semi-final, France against Wales. Sam Warburton was shown a red card for a tip-tackle. Alain Rolland, the referee, got one look at it ā in real speed ā and had to make a match-altering decision because at that point, you couldnāt use the TMO to review foul play. Or in 2013, when Manu Tuilagi punched Chris Ashton off the ball in the Premiership semi-final; it was a big hit, which the assistant referee only half-saw. He recommended a yellow card for both because they were both involved. Dave Pearson, the TMO, couldnāt intervene. Scotland were heartbroken in 2015 when a penalty was awarded against Jon Welsh; a penalty that cost them a place in the World Cup semi-finals. At first glance, Welsh looked offside; on rewatching, it clearly came off an Australian player and did not warrant a penalty. Scotland were incensed with the referee ā there was even a petition to ban him from Scotland! ā but the point is, he didnāt have a back-up. At that point, he could have referred the decision to the TMO only in the build-up to a try. So again, you have to accept that the present state of affairs represents progress. Though we try to, it is impossible to get every decision right. In an average game, there are more than 200 breakdowns, 25 lineouts and a dozen scrums, meaning I have to make hundreds of decisions and non-decisions each match, with players running in front of me, the ball being passed behind me and kicked 50 metres away from me. But we should always strive to get the big ones right. Euro 2020 was a fine template for that. Uefa was roundly applauded for its use of VAR. When the magnitude was greatest, VAR stepped in and the correct decision was reached. Otherwise, the match flowed. Now rugby has more grey than football. So for this to work, everyone has a role to play ā fans, players, pundits, journalists, referees. There needs to be an acceptance that no match will be perfect, allow that there will be a knock-on missed, a marginal offside unseen, but that when the stakes are highest, the TMO will help to reach the correct decision. Then we can strike the right balance between flow and fairness, instinct and intervention. But if we expect perfection for every call, however small, then expect more stoppages. There have been numerous recent comments about the TMO interrupting the flow of a game and we know, as match officials, that we play an important role in getting a game to flow and adding momentum to it. First, a referral to the TMO should occur in the background as far as possible. Ideally, if I see something that I am doubtful over, I can ask the TMO: āShould I be checking that?ā, and we will check it only if necessary. Then there is the issue of chivvying players along. Letās take the drawn-out process of getting blockers in before a box-kick; the referee should call āuse itā as soon as the contest for possession is over, giving the scrum half five seconds to play. And when players huddle up before a lineout, we should reiterate that they must make their calls on their way to the line of touch, to keep the game moving. So too at the scrum, where referees can be more efficient at a reset ā particularly important today, given the pitch at Cape Town, which tore up badly in the second Test. The scrum is also an area that demonstrates the strict limits to refereesā powers. I always say to a captain before the match that if a player is down and it is neither serious nor affecting a restart, I will ask for the game to carry on. And yet, if there is a scrum about to take place and one of the props is down injured, no referee should or would tell that player to get up and pack down to speed up a game. Their safety has to be paramount. If observers, coaches and fans think that people are abusing that priority, then it is a game-wide issue, not one to be solved by a single referee on the field of play. That was exemplified in the match between France and Wales in the 2017 Six Nations, which stretched to 100 minutes. I was the referee for that game. There was the suggestion that Uini Atonio had faked a head injury to get Rabah Slimani back on to the field to give them an advantage. But in my position, there was only one thing to do ā if a doctor tells me that the prop needs an HIA, he goes off for an HIA. All of this adds to the time on the clock, but sometimes, a refereeās hands are tied. -
Just finished watching it ,
The best of the three tests , enjoyed this one , found the other 2 harder work,
Not sure how we will go against them , like to think we could give them plenty of problems,
Bok supporters will probably think we have flaky areas they can exploit as well though , and itās hard to argue that
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@mikethesnow said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
@sparky said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
French ref having a shocker. Unsurprisingly.
One bad mistake - which didnāt impact the better team winning
Otherwise best refereeing performance in ages
Lions blew it
It was not so much the decisions that I had a problem with but the use of the TMO and replays. Everything took an age, it was horrible for the spectacle. I think World Rugby has to rethink this.
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Lions didn't take the opportunities, simply put. I'm not sure either team was dramatically better in the last game, tho the boks were probably better through the series
Gatland fucked up by not starting the Price/Russell combo in every test IMHO. Having a 9 & 10 who know each other well is important when you are changing all the other pieces.
Boks won by barely firing a shot. Lions didn't do much more, and couldn't make a tackle on Kolbe when it mattered. That's the difference.
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@nepia said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
Steyn, 37, hasn't played a test in 5 years. Crazy.
Yeah but how hard is it? Kick the goals, then go stand in the back field and wait for the inevitable bomb, which your wingers or fullback will defuse, for you to clear. The Boks played 4 in the back field for the majority of the game.
It pretty much illustrates where the boks are: try not to lose.
They've added a huge dose of siege mentality with a massive victim complex crossover, this series. They are performing a good job of self-isolation in a way that apartheid can't quite match.
They'll get short shrift when they go up north... IF they ever go up north again.
Will they turn up for TRC?
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Horrible test, horrible series. Lions should have been out of sight by half time, two butchered tries meant what should have been a 14 / 16 / 18 point halftime lead, but was actually 4, felt like a Springbok victory. Williams' missed one was bad enough, Curry's was unbelievable, such a dumb dumb penalty. He's been a penalty machine across the test series.
Ref was poor again. Seemed to start off OK, but then lost control. How the F was that Bok #8 topedo into Wyn Jones' back at the end of the first half not a penalty? Don't think he knew what was happening in the scrum, and baffled that he let the book just pull down the maul. C'est la vie.
Gatland and the rest of his coaches will come away from this with little credit. Poor, predictable gameplan; poor, weird selections. The back row should have been an area of strength but was average, needed to be changed. Centres - 3 combinations in 3 tests tells a story. Good players not even making the bench while those out of form retained their starting spots.
Boks were Boks, they didn't play particularly well, but they're always tough as hell and play with tenacity and a great spirit.
The worst thing is that when we think back on this tour, there are barely any rugby moments that stick in the mind. All that off-field bollocks is the most memorable part of it. It's dumbfounding that Rassie has been allowed to do what he's done with no consequence other than a "we're a little disappointed" press release from WR. Does not bode well for the future.
Oh well, only another 4 years until the next one - qnd they're coming to me next time. Looking forward to it already. All the best for the Rugby Championship Boks.
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@gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
All the best for the Rugby Championship Boks.
Let's not count our chickens...
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@gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
The worst thing is that when we think back on this tour, there are barely any rugby moments that stick in the mind
Conor Murray landing on his face, maybe
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@nta said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
Lions didn't take the opportunities, simply put. I'm not sure either team was dramatically better in the last game, tho the boks were probably better through the series
Gatland fucked up by not starting the Price/Russell combo in every test IMHO. Having a 9 & 10 who know each other well is important when you are changing all the other pieces.
Boks won by barely firing a shot. Lions didn't do much more, and couldn't make a tackle on Kolbe when it mattered. That's the difference.
When a team is reliant on a couple of Scots playmakers to run the cutter effectively you know that theyāre fucked.
Well done Boks, good series victory.
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I'm in a minority, but I enjoyed that game and the series. The rugby never reached great heights, but it was meaningful competition, and games we don't see often. I was happy with it.
Astonished teh try to Kolbe got awarded though - looked a clear knockon by the Bokke. Still, those 50/50 have defined the series - and arguably Boks were better all the way through.
Australia in 4 yers will be interesting. Hopefully travelling supporters at last!
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@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions III:
I'm in a minority, but I enjoyed that game and the series. The rugby never reached great heights, but it was meaningful competition, and games we don't see often. I was happy with it.
Astonished teh try to Kolbe got awarded though - looked a clear knockon by the Bokke. Still, those 50/50 have defined the series - and arguably Boks were better all the way through.
Australia in 4 yers will be interesting. Hopefully travelling supporters at last!
I still enjoyed it, despite it being horrible. Such a huge occasion, stories and history being made. A great shame that covid prevented the team seeing the sights and meeting the people, and of course crowds in the stands.
It's a weird one to look back on. I feel like the Lions were the better team for much of the series. If I was scoring it like a boxing match, I'd say
Round 1 (1st half of the 1st test) was tied
Round 2 - Lions
Round 3 - Lions
Round 4 - Boks
Round 5 - Lions
Round 6 - tied
But that doesn't reflect the fact that the Bok scored points when they were on top, and the Lions didn't. Two tries, both from mauls, across the 3 tests is telling.Also thought it looked like a knock-on, but I can see why it wasn't called. Three key moments in the last 2 tests where the footage was inconclusive (this one, Henshaw's non-try and Am's try) and they just had to stick with the on field call. All 3 favouring the Boks - but I'm not complaining about those, that's just the way it goes sometimes. Close incidents in close matches can go either way.
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@tordah France have had their moments and so have Fiji but yes to the rest.
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how is Gatland's coaching rep looking like now? Doesn't seem to have been a great year/season for him.
