Blues 2022
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@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@Mackerzzzz said in Blues 2022:
@Tim said in Blues 2022:
The Blues held the Chiefs scoreless and Cully was full of praise for the impact of Joe Schmidt, the Kiwi who coached Ireland from 2013-2019 and returned to NZ as an assistant to Leon MacDonald this season.
“When you look at the Blues I’ve got two words for you – Joe Schmidt,” said Cully.
“He was hired at the start of the year. His influence is really becoming apparent.
“When they were down in Dunedin at the start of the season I watched him before the games started. He is a magnificent, world class coach and the word is that the Blues players, including their senior All Blacks are hanging on his every word, rate him incredibly highly.
“The Blues have been building for two or three years but I think Schmidt’s addition has taken them to another level.”
Tis amazing how much good coaching can do. With all respect to Tana, but the Blues have been a much better side since he stepped down from head coach.
Even back when JK was coaching, the Blues had all the talent, but just had no idea how to controll or take advantage of it.
Eg. JKs squad had the likes of, woodcock, mealamu, Charlie f, Kaino, Luatua, Braid, Pulu, Moala, Halai, Visinia, Piutau, etc etcI'll take my broken record award and point out it ain't just the new coach, but the change in board that drove excellence in the organisation and enabled success on the field
The heart of the crusaders success has been a competent back office. The Blues haven't had that fo rdecades, until 3 years ago. Then you see everything lift - the relationships between unions, the fan experience, the coaching/off field admin support - it all got better year on year. That's why Leon could drive what he needed.
With Clarke, Lam, Heem, Ioane, and Sullivan etc.. they've been able to consistently field 103kg+ tall backs in every game. This has really helped them get over the advantage line with mostly simple moves.
In turn, that's helped allow their forwards to get on the front foot and hit their breakdown targets.
Heem did a great job as a stop-gap at 12. He's the same height and weight as SBW & more effective than any Crusaders centre in his core roles.
I believe the size options you have in the backs has played a big part in your winning this season, and huge loosies & props.
Meanwhile the humble Crusaders have the 92kg Ennor, 95kg Bridge, Havili, 94kg Jordan, 83kg Mo'unga, etc..
The disparity in the backline talent is enormous. The Blues simply have far better players - forwards and backs.
You are way off on your stats for those Crusaders players they are old stats have you seen them up close they are bigger than that.
They have all bulked up a lot since those old stats.
And that I get from the crusaders trainer who works with them.The point stands though regarding size.
Blues have bigger backs than Crusaders
Yes agreed but those quoted weights are BS.
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@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@Mackerzzzz said in Blues 2022:
@Tim said in Blues 2022:
The Blues held the Chiefs scoreless and Cully was full of praise for the impact of Joe Schmidt, the Kiwi who coached Ireland from 2013-2019 and returned to NZ as an assistant to Leon MacDonald this season.
“When you look at the Blues I’ve got two words for you – Joe Schmidt,” said Cully.
“He was hired at the start of the year. His influence is really becoming apparent.
“When they were down in Dunedin at the start of the season I watched him before the games started. He is a magnificent, world class coach and the word is that the Blues players, including their senior All Blacks are hanging on his every word, rate him incredibly highly.
“The Blues have been building for two or three years but I think Schmidt’s addition has taken them to another level.”
Tis amazing how much good coaching can do. With all respect to Tana, but the Blues have been a much better side since he stepped down from head coach.
Even back when JK was coaching, the Blues had all the talent, but just had no idea how to controll or take advantage of it.
Eg. JKs squad had the likes of, woodcock, mealamu, Charlie f, Kaino, Luatua, Braid, Pulu, Moala, Halai, Visinia, Piutau, etc etcI'll take my broken record award and point out it ain't just the new coach, but the change in board that drove excellence in the organisation and enabled success on the field
The heart of the crusaders success has been a competent back office. The Blues haven't had that fo rdecades, until 3 years ago. Then you see everything lift - the relationships between unions, the fan experience, the coaching/off field admin support - it all got better year on year. That's why Leon could drive what he needed.
With Clarke, Lam, Heem, Ioane, and Sullivan etc.. they've been able to consistently field 103kg+ tall backs in every game. This has really helped them get over the advantage line with mostly simple moves.
In turn, that's helped allow their forwards to get on the front foot and hit their breakdown targets.
Heem did a great job as a stop-gap at 12. He's the same height and weight as SBW & more effective than any Crusaders centre in his core roles.
I believe the size options you have in the backs has played a big part in your winning this season, and huge loosies & props.
Meanwhile the humble Crusaders have the 92kg Ennor, 95kg Bridge, Havili, 94kg Jordan, 83kg Mo'unga, etc..
The disparity in the backline talent is enormous. The Blues simply have far better players - forwards and backs.
You are way off on your stats for those Crusaders players they are old stats have you seen them up close they are bigger than that.
They have all bulked up a lot since those old stats.
And that I get from the crusaders trainer who works with them.The point stands though regarding size.
Blues have bigger backs than Crusaders
Yes agreed but those quoted weights are BS.
Yeah agreed - it's a bit annoying how amateur hour rugby is with that stuff compared to other pro sports leagues
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@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@Mackerzzzz said in Blues 2022:
@Tim said in Blues 2022:
The Blues held the Chiefs scoreless and Cully was full of praise for the impact of Joe Schmidt, the Kiwi who coached Ireland from 2013-2019 and returned to NZ as an assistant to Leon MacDonald this season.
“When you look at the Blues I’ve got two words for you – Joe Schmidt,” said Cully.
“He was hired at the start of the year. His influence is really becoming apparent.
“When they were down in Dunedin at the start of the season I watched him before the games started. He is a magnificent, world class coach and the word is that the Blues players, including their senior All Blacks are hanging on his every word, rate him incredibly highly.
“The Blues have been building for two or three years but I think Schmidt’s addition has taken them to another level.”
Tis amazing how much good coaching can do. With all respect to Tana, but the Blues have been a much better side since he stepped down from head coach.
Even back when JK was coaching, the Blues had all the talent, but just had no idea how to controll or take advantage of it.
Eg. JKs squad had the likes of, woodcock, mealamu, Charlie f, Kaino, Luatua, Braid, Pulu, Moala, Halai, Visinia, Piutau, etc etcI'll take my broken record award and point out it ain't just the new coach, but the change in board that drove excellence in the organisation and enabled success on the field
The heart of the crusaders success has been a competent back office. The Blues haven't had that fo rdecades, until 3 years ago. Then you see everything lift - the relationships between unions, the fan experience, the coaching/off field admin support - it all got better year on year. That's why Leon could drive what he needed.
With Clarke, Lam, Heem, Ioane, and Sullivan etc.. they've been able to consistently field 103kg+ tall backs in every game. This has really helped them get over the advantage line with mostly simple moves.
In turn, that's helped allow their forwards to get on the front foot and hit their breakdown targets.
Heem did a great job as a stop-gap at 12. He's the same height and weight as SBW & more effective than any Crusaders centre in his core roles.
I believe the size options you have in the backs has played a big part in your winning this season, and huge loosies & props.
Meanwhile the humble Crusaders have the 92kg Ennor, 95kg Bridge, Havili, 94kg Jordan, 83kg Mo'unga, etc..
The disparity in the backline talent is enormous. The Blues simply have far better players - forwards and backs.
You are way off on your stats for those Crusaders players they are old stats have you seen them up close they are bigger than that.
They have all bulked up a lot since those old stats.
And that I get from the crusaders trainer who works with them.The point stands though regarding size.
Blues have bigger backs than Crusaders
And loose forwards, hookers & props. Crusaders locks with the exception of Whitelock are lighter as well.
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@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@Mackerzzzz said in Blues 2022:
@Tim said in Blues 2022:
The Blues held the Chiefs scoreless and Cully was full of praise for the impact of Joe Schmidt, the Kiwi who coached Ireland from 2013-2019 and returned to NZ as an assistant to Leon MacDonald this season.
“When you look at the Blues I’ve got two words for you – Joe Schmidt,” said Cully.
“He was hired at the start of the year. His influence is really becoming apparent.
“When they were down in Dunedin at the start of the season I watched him before the games started. He is a magnificent, world class coach and the word is that the Blues players, including their senior All Blacks are hanging on his every word, rate him incredibly highly.
“The Blues have been building for two or three years but I think Schmidt’s addition has taken them to another level.”
Tis amazing how much good coaching can do. With all respect to Tana, but the Blues have been a much better side since he stepped down from head coach.
Even back when JK was coaching, the Blues had all the talent, but just had no idea how to controll or take advantage of it.
Eg. JKs squad had the likes of, woodcock, mealamu, Charlie f, Kaino, Luatua, Braid, Pulu, Moala, Halai, Visinia, Piutau, etc etcI'll take my broken record award and point out it ain't just the new coach, but the change in board that drove excellence in the organisation and enabled success on the field
The heart of the crusaders success has been a competent back office. The Blues haven't had that fo rdecades, until 3 years ago. Then you see everything lift - the relationships between unions, the fan experience, the coaching/off field admin support - it all got better year on year. That's why Leon could drive what he needed.
With Clarke, Lam, Heem, Ioane, and Sullivan etc.. they've been able to consistently field 103kg+ tall backs in every game. This has really helped them get over the advantage line with mostly simple moves.
In turn, that's helped allow their forwards to get on the front foot and hit their breakdown targets.
Heem did a great job as a stop-gap at 12. He's the same height and weight as SBW & more effective than any Crusaders centre in his core roles.
I believe the size options you have in the backs has played a big part in your winning this season, and huge loosies & props.
Meanwhile the humble Crusaders have the 92kg Ennor, 95kg Bridge, Havili, 94kg Jordan, 83kg Mo'unga, etc..
The disparity in the backline talent is enormous. The Blues simply have far better players - forwards and backs.
You are way off on your stats for those Crusaders players they are old stats have you seen them up close they are bigger than that.
They have all bulked up a lot since those old stats.
And that I get from the crusaders trainer who works with them.The point stands though regarding size.
Blues have bigger backs than Crusaders
Yes agreed but those quoted weights are BS.
Yeah agreed - it's a bit annoying how amateur hour rugby is with that stuff compared to other pro sports leagues
Some are not updated from schoolboys days
Zach Gallagher on some site has him at 95 Kg
He is around 117 Kg now. -
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@KiwiMurph said in Blues 2022:
@Chris said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
@nzzp said in Blues 2022:
@Mackerzzzz said in Blues 2022:
@Tim said in Blues 2022:
The Blues held the Chiefs scoreless and Cully was full of praise for the impact of Joe Schmidt, the Kiwi who coached Ireland from 2013-2019 and returned to NZ as an assistant to Leon MacDonald this season.
“When you look at the Blues I’ve got two words for you – Joe Schmidt,” said Cully.
“He was hired at the start of the year. His influence is really becoming apparent.
“When they were down in Dunedin at the start of the season I watched him before the games started. He is a magnificent, world class coach and the word is that the Blues players, including their senior All Blacks are hanging on his every word, rate him incredibly highly.
“The Blues have been building for two or three years but I think Schmidt’s addition has taken them to another level.”
Tis amazing how much good coaching can do. With all respect to Tana, but the Blues have been a much better side since he stepped down from head coach.
Even back when JK was coaching, the Blues had all the talent, but just had no idea how to controll or take advantage of it.
Eg. JKs squad had the likes of, woodcock, mealamu, Charlie f, Kaino, Luatua, Braid, Pulu, Moala, Halai, Visinia, Piutau, etc etcI'll take my broken record award and point out it ain't just the new coach, but the change in board that drove excellence in the organisation and enabled success on the field
The heart of the crusaders success has been a competent back office. The Blues haven't had that fo rdecades, until 3 years ago. Then you see everything lift - the relationships between unions, the fan experience, the coaching/off field admin support - it all got better year on year. That's why Leon could drive what he needed.
With Clarke, Lam, Heem, Ioane, and Sullivan etc.. they've been able to consistently field 103kg+ tall backs in every game. This has really helped them get over the advantage line with mostly simple moves.
In turn, that's helped allow their forwards to get on the front foot and hit their breakdown targets.
Heem did a great job as a stop-gap at 12. He's the same height and weight as SBW & more effective than any Crusaders centre in his core roles.
I believe the size options you have in the backs has played a big part in your winning this season, and huge loosies & props.
Meanwhile the humble Crusaders have the 92kg Ennor, 95kg Bridge, Havili, 94kg Jordan, 83kg Mo'unga, etc..
The disparity in the backline talent is enormous. The Blues simply have far better players - forwar ds and backs.
You are way off on your stats for those Crusaders players they are old stats have you seen them up close they are bigger than that.
They have all bulked up a lot since those old stats.
And that I get from the crusaders trainer who works with them.The point stands though regarding size.
Blues have bigger backs than Crusaders
And loose forwards, hookers & props. Crusaders locks with the exception of Whitelock are lighter as well.
LFs yes but the props are not much difference if you have the real stats
Williams 140kg
Newell 125 Kg
Jager 120 kg
Are their true weights . -
I'm just trying to highlight how the narrative around 'Crusaders have the best talent' hasn't even been remotely close to the truth since 2019, at latest. They won the last 2 titles with a pack that wasn't dominating, they were regularly up against more talented packs who were often getting the better of them. The point I'm coming back to is that McDonald hasn't proven anything with just one cruisy season of success with all the playing cards lined up on his side. Once he wins a title when the odds aren't erroneously stacked in his direction like Razor has managed twice (with Sumner & 20/21 Crusaders) then we could put him in the national conversation.
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@kiwi_expat said in Blues 2022:
I'm just trying to highlight how the narrative around 'Crusaders have best talent' hasn't even been close to the truth since 2019, at latest. They won the last 2 titles with a pack that wasn't dominating, they were regularly up against more talented packs who were often getting the better of them. The point I'm coming back to is that McDonald hasn't proven anything with just one cruisy season of success with all the playing cards lined up on his side. Once he wins a title when the odds aren't erroneously stacked in his direction like Razor has managed twice (with Sumner & 20/21 Crusaders) then we can put him in the national conversation.
Ok I see your points.
They are Good points to be honest .I have a massive pet hate on stats on sites which are years and years out of date,it’s unprofessional by Rugby to let it happen.
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McDonald also has Joe Schmidt, Tom Coventry, Ben Afeaki, Craig McGrath, Daniel Halangahu on his coaching staff.
They are all (bar Halangahu) extremely highly regarded technical coaches with excellent track records & they were gifted to Leon by the Blues board.
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@kiwi_expat like any organisation, you surround yourself with good people, no point being the most awesome manager if your assistants aren't upto it, conversely if the assistants are great but the manager is shit you will struggle too.
The Blues right now have a great balance in thier coaching team, players and this is flowing through to the culture, and a great culture lends to enjoying your 'work' and if you enjoy your work, you work better.
The Crusaders clearly still have most of the pieces of the puzzle, but lack the depth they have enjoyed previously, so when chinks in the armour appear it impacts confidence, this is where the good management team can make the difference in bringing things together and keep things heading in the right direction.
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@taniwharugby McDonald is a good coach who's obviously benefited from a very supportive board - lucrative 3rd party signings, world-class assistant coaches appointed around him, etc.. Ironically, McDonald having his assistant coaches picked for him is probably the better method, as Razor has only surrounded himself in unproven and inexperienced assistant coaches in the likes of Ellison, Hansen, etc..
Ellison has only been coaching at the elite level for a few years and was a failure in all his gigs (in the Japan top league & Wellington Lions), Hansen was sacked by the Tigers for a terrible record and he was also a very poor attack coach for Canterbury between 2013-2014. Neither of them are proven coaches in any sense of the word and their appointments were poor judgment from Razor.
Jason Ryan is the only highly regarded assistant coach among Razor's staff, while McDonald has 3 or 4.
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@kiwi_expat I don't know who in the Crusaders set-up pissed in your weetbix, but your vendetta is tiring. Change the bloody broken record, it's boring.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2022:
@kiwi_expat I don't know who in the Crusaders set-up pissed in your weetbix, but your vendetta is tiring. Change the bloody broken record, it's boring.
I do agree in a way with what he is saying. This a not a vintage Saders squad and it's been that way a couple of years now. I don't think it is as bad as @kiwi_expat does though.
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@Crazy-Horse There is some point in what he says, but the fact that he's just taking every possibility to put the boot in one franchise - while he could have used others - is annoying. If there's one organisation where you can see that who's in your organisation is having a huge effect on performance (in a negative way), it's the Canes. It's extremely frustrating to see how the whole Hurricanes set-up is just wasting talent from the U18s up to Super level.
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2022:
@Crazy-Horse There is some point in what he says, but the fact that he's just taking every possibility to put the boot in one franchise - while he could have used others - is annoying. If there's one organisation where you can see that who's in your organisation is having a huge effect on performance (in a negative way), it's the Canes. It's extremely frustrating to see how the whole Hurricanes set-up is just wasting talent from the U18s up to Super level.
I guess the difference is that’s pretty normal for the Canes, where as the Crusaders used to have a well organized setup. The change is worth commenting on.
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Their squad looks strong to me. Not sure if I buy into the argument
However the claim that their coach deserves credit for having a ‘weak’ squad only half makes sense. He would also be responsible for the selection of that squad.. it would be an argument against him leading a national selection panel for instance
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@Stargazer said in Blues 2022:
@Duluth Better still, chuck the broken record away.
Be a pretty dull forum if we weren’t allowed to discuss opinions or all agreed with each other.
If you think he’s wrong should be pretty easy to disprove.
