2023 (expanded) World Cup in South Africa

rotated

Genuine question though - would South Africa be considered a safe pair of hands for the RWC?
 
Japan has already had some major issues (Singapore/HK axed, national stadium lost) and I don't imagine anything outside transport logistics will come easy there. I can imagine World Rugby would much prefer a safe pair of hands for 2023 if 2019 is going to be very resource intensive for them. Sporting bodies routinely do this.
 
There is no doubt South Africa can organise a tournament in the modern era (they did the Soccer World Cup), but given their national board and the governments antagonism towards the sport I highly doubt it would be a walk in the park.
 
South Africa seems logical on paper, but the more you look at it from a WR perspective Ireland is the better candidate.
 
I can just see those idiots trying to get the Southern Kings inserted into the World Cup or some other such nonsense.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="554845" data-time="1453989047">
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You have explained why you think Ireland would be a terrible decision and have had most of your reasoning debunked.
 
I'm pretty .sure my maths on France is accurate. They hosted it in 1999 and if they get it "by the next one" (ie 2027), that would be 28 years
 
I don't understand why Italy after Japan could be a bit risky? Are you saying that because neither are Tier 1 nations?
 
Sure there is an argument for the tournament returning to the SH, I don't think anyone has really denied that and yes SA is a rugby heartland, but then again so is Ireland. Rugby is very much a part of Irish life (and yes I know that so is Gaelic Football and Hurling), but to suggest that Ireland is not a rugby heartland is pretty lame and not much to base an argument on.
 
By all means promote SA as an option (and a good one at that) but don't dismiss another option just because it's not your favoured one. Look at the merits - there are plenty, just not necessarily the same one
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</blockquote>
 
Dude, I'm loving your work, but wasn't 99 "in" Wales? And i have strange memories of watching the 2007 final in Paris.

Unco

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554835" data-time="1453982169">
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Ireland is less than a third the size of New Zealand geographically. Why didn't you just compare it to Australia? There's no logic in your analogy at all.
 
Most outsiders would regard the 2011 RWC is perhaps the worst so far, with the possible exception of 1991.
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</blockquote>
 
It wasn't an analogy, bro, it was a mockery. Because if you think 1000 odd rugby players, coaches and management between 20 or 24 teams is going to even come remotely close to filling up a country a third of the size of New Zealand, you're a fucking idiot. Fucking Qatar is hosting the FIFA World Cup in a few years, a country less than half the size of the Waikato.
 
2011 RWC was the worst?! Yeah, I guess if you're a not a big fan of entertaining rugby, it was up there with the worst.

mariner4life

This thread is pretty great.

Rowan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Catogrande" data-cid="554845" data-time="1453989047">
<div>
You have explained why you think Ireland would be a terrible decision and have had most of your reasoning debunked.
 
I'm pretty sure my maths on France is accurate. They hosted it in 1999 and if they get it "by the next one" (ie 2027), that would be 28 years.
 
I don't understand why Italy after Japan could be a bit risky? Are you saying that because neither are Tier 1 nations?
 
Sure there is an argument for the tournament returning to the SH, I don't think anyone has really denied that and yes SA is a rugby heartland, but then again so is Ireland. Rugby is very much a part of Irish life (and yes I know that so is Gaelic Football and Hurling), but to suggest that Ireland is not a rugby heartland is pretty lame and not much to base an argument on.
 
By all means promote SA as an option (and a good one at that) but don't dismiss another option just because it's not your favoured one. Look at the merits - there are plenty, just not necessarily the same one
</div>
</blockquote>
 
France hosted in 2007, dude.
 
Italy are, in fact, tier 1. But like Japan, they are not what we would consider a rugby 'heartland.' The sport is relatively minor there. So it would be prudent to wait and see how Japan goes off before awarding the tournament to another 'emerging' rugby nation.
 
Rugby is not only firmly in the shadow of Gaelic and hurling in Ireland, it is also in the shadow of football.

Derm McCrum

It's the fact that Ireland has pretty much the same numbers of foreign visitors as South Africa is the bit that worries me. 
SA had 9.4m foreign visitors in 2014. And Ireland only had 9.9m. How on earth would we fit another 1,000 people in? 
And only 1.5m fans go through the GAA turnstiles every summer. How would we manage 450,000 in Sept/Oct? 
And how would we fill the stadia? I mean Ireland managed to set a new attendance record at a World Cup match against Romania last Sept in the UK? God knows what would happen if we held it in Ireland. 
Tis a fearsome worry, the whole thing.

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="554918" data-time="1454025834">
This thread is pretty great.</blockquote>
 
It is , Rowan is basically a whack a mole of stupidity. Add that to an unfathomably huge amount if self regard and you have a sure fire recipe for mirth. 
So far it boils down to Ireland is too wet and cold for a winter sport and there's not enough to do there. On the other hand the vastness of South Africa in comparison is no issue for a travelling fan . 
Ok.

Rowan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ulsterman" data-cid="554847" data-time="1453997452">
<div>
England has the same climate as Ireland. England just hosted arguably the most expansive Rugby World Cup in the professional era.
 
The 1995 final:
 
 - Was won by a team marking Jonah Lomu out of the game
 - Had no tries, and was won by a drop-goal in extra time.
 
 
Not exactly open rugby . . .
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</blockquote>
 
I've already demonstrated that London is significant warmer than both Dublin and Belfast in October, has about twice as many sunshine hours, and a much lower chance of rainfall. 
 
Yes, the 1995 final was a titanic struggle between two evenly-matched teams, that's why. Same happened in Australia in the 2003 final, and also in 2011. When the teams are that good - and that close - the conditions are basically irrelevant. But in the vast majority of the games, they undoubtedly play a part. A wet track is not conducive to espansive rugby, plain and simply.

Rowan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="554868" data-time="1454009885">
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No. The 99 system was crap. Nothing to do with nz's failure. 
Trying to invent a play off system for an unbalanced number of teams was just wrong.
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</blockquote>
 
I thought 99 was a better tournament than 91 or 11, but, yes, the play off system wasnt good. The group stages were fine - that was my original point.

Rowan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="554878" data-time="1454013557">
<div>
Genuine question though - would South Africa be considered a safe pair of hands for the RWC?
 
Japan has already had some major issues (Singapore/HK axed, national stadium lost) and I don't imagine anything outside transport logistics will come easy there. I can imagine World Rugby would much prefer a safe pair of hands for 2023 if 2019 is going to be very resource intensive for them. Sporting bodies routinely do this.
 
There is no doubt South Africa can organise a tournament in the modern era (they did the Soccer World Cup), but given their national board and the governments antagonism towards the sport I highly doubt it would be a walk in the park.
 
South Africa seems logical on paper, but the more you look at it from a WR perspective Ireland is the better candidate.
 
I can just see those idiots trying to get the Southern Kings inserted into the World Cup or some other such nonsense.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yet South Africa has won two World Cups and finished third last year, while Ireland has never even reached the semi-finals. Is that any indication of which union is more competent?

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554926" data-time="1454027135">
I thought 99 was a better tournament than 91 or 11, ...</blockquote>
 
Then you ARE an idiot

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554927" data-time="1454027259">
<div>
Yet South Africa has won two World Cups and finished third last year, while Ireland has never even reached the semi-finals. Is that any indication of which union is more competent? 
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</blockquote>
Absolutely not. That just shows who had the better team

Derm McCrum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554924" data-time="1454026897">
I've already demonstrated that London is significant warmer than both Dublin and Belfast in October, has about twice as many sunshine hours, and a much lower chance of rainfall. 
Yes, the 1995 final was a titanic struggle between two evenly-matched teams, that's why. Same happened in Australia in the 2003 final, and also in 2011. When the teams are that good - and that close - the conditions are basically irrelevant. But in the vast majority of the games, they undoubtedly play a part. A wet track is not conducive to espansive rugby, plain and simply.</blockquote>
 
The temperatures you've provided for Dublin and Belfast are not accurate. Mean temps in Sept/Oct are 15-17c. You seem to have a dreadful fear of rain. It's not like it's pouring down every single hour. 
And the stadia are located throughout the island not just in two of the cities. The cities of Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Derry would also likely feature as fan destinations. 
Might be useful to do some accurate homework. Or even listen to someone who's been there (hint)

Rowan

"Qatar is hosting the FIFA World Cup in a few years, a country less than half the size of the Waikato."
 
Okay, FIFA should be heartily congratulated on its perspicacious decision to award the World Cup to Qatar. This has been received with universal approval and enthusiasm and is the perfect argument in favor of sending the Rugby World Cup to another tiny island. Good argument, this...

Disgusted of TW

OK, I've sussed it - this is a Turing test, and Rowan is an AI?

taniwharugby

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554927" data-time="1454027259">
<div>
Yet South Africa has won two World Cups and finished third last year, while Ireland has never even reached the semi-finals. Is that any indication of which union is more competent? 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
If you think on field results is an example of which country or Union is more competent (most SA fans freely admit the SARU is a mess) then you are an even bigger idiot than I thought you were!

Hooroo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554932" data-time="1454027680">
<div>
"Qatar is hosting the FIFA World Cup in a few years, a country less than half the size of the Waikato."
 
Okay, FIFA should be heartily congratulated on its perspicacious decision to award the World Cup to Qatar. This has been received with universal approval and enthusiasm and is the perfect argument in favor of sending the Rugby World Cup to another tiny island. Good argument, this... 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
You report posts for being infintile and then you post this.
 
Could you not understand the point of the post is that Ireland has more than enough terra firma to host an event such as the RWC

jegga

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Rowan" data-cid="554926" data-time="1454027135">
I thought 99 was a better tournament than 91 or 11, but, yes, the play off system wasnt good. The group stages were fine - that was my original point.</blockquote>
 
You are the only person I have ever seen say 99 was a good format. 
Who are these outsiders that think 2011 was poor? Names and links please. 
This should be good.....,

Rowan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="554931" data-time="1454027529">
<div>
The temperatures you've provided for Dublin and Belfast are not accurate. Mean temps in Sept/Oct are 15-17c. You seem to have a dreadful fear of rain. It's not like it's pouring down every single hour. 
And the stadia are located throughout the island not just in two of the cities. The cities of Limerick, Cork, Waterford, Kilkenny, Galway and Derry would also likely feature as fan destinations. 
Might be useful to do some accurate homework. Or even listen to someone who's been there (hint)
</div>
</blockquote>
 
THe temperatures I provided for October (not September) were taken directly from official sources. It's well known Northern Ireland, in particular, has pretty rotten weather. 9 degreees, 74% chance of rain, two hours' of sunshine a day, dark by mid-afternoon.

Disgusted of TW

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Pot Hale" data-cid="554931" data-time="1454027529">The temperatures you've provided for Dublin and Belfast are not accurate. Mean temps in Sept/Oct are 15-17c. You seem to have a dreadful fear of rain. It's not like it's pouring down every single hour.</blockquote>
 
And even then, 'tis a soft rain, as me dear auld mammy used to say. Rain before 7, dry by 11. Etc.

The Silver Fern

2023 (expanded) World Cup in South Africa