Super Rugby Trans Tasman
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'We need it': Blues chief executive reveals plans for global club competition are underway
Blues chief executive Andrew Hore has revealed plans to create a Champions League-style global club competition are underway.
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Not sure where to put this so putting this here.
This was as obvious as night follows day.
NZ Rugby and Rugby Australia had previously indicated that agreement on the future of Super Rugby could be reached by late June, but that is now an optimistic deadline after Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan told Stuff that significant differences remain. There is no agreement on how the rights and revenue for the competition are to be shared, what the competition looks like, and whether Moana Pasifika and Fijian Drua can stand up over the longer-term, while talks have left Rugby Australia feeling undervalued – despite their recognition that the Australian sides need to improve. “Trans Ta$man currently feels pretty imbalanced,” McLennan said. “We’re not changing our five teams so we need to work out an equitable attribution to running the competition. New Zealand’s [TV] ratings went up during Trans Ta$man, whilst ours went down.” -
@kiwimurph The great irony is neither country can afford to go it alone.
edit- Unless NZ can sell a 10 team "professional NPC" to OS markets at a profit.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwimurph The great irony is neither country can afford to go it alone.
edit- Unless NZ can sell a 10 team "professional NPC" to OS markets at a profit.
respect to RA for looking at what was actually attracting interest from their fans
The aussie guys around my club werent sure who had made the final of SRTT
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@kiwimurph From that article:
Rugby Australia is thought be looking at a conference model for Super Rugby Trans Ta$man, in which Moana Pasifika will join the New Zealand side of the draw and the Fijian Drua are in the Australian side – if the new franchises stack up.
The winners from each conference would then face each other in the final, guaranteeing that one side from the Australian conference would be in the final.They can f*ck right off. There should be semi-finals between the top 4 teams regardless of conference. Winners of SFs play the Final.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwimurph The great irony is neither country can afford to go it alone.
edit- Unless NZ can sell a 10 team "professional NPC" to OS markets at a profit.
respect to RA for looking at what was actually attracting interest from their fans
They don't have any unless they're winning. The rest of the market is expats so if they go alone then maybe two - three teams have increased supporter interest and the standard of rugby continues to decline. As does what broadcasters will be willing to pay which feeds into their ability to invest and keep talent.
It's obvious to me that RA doesn't appear to have a long term plan.
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@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
the top NPC team are probably not far off the SRAU teams, it would give them more games against different styles, has to be better than getting smashed most games
We have to see the difference between growing the sport in general, long term having more people playing and so more to pick from and the current hundred top player getting better, one is long term and one is short
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
then no point playing against NZ, we've almost always have the upper hand, so cut them loose
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
That Australians turned off during their beltings in SRTT doesn't necessarily mean the game grew during SRAU. I contend that at best what we saw was latent demand from those who didn't have Foxtel.
What we're not privy to is discernible markers of this increased interest - crowd numbers, memberships, supporter gear purchases etc.
the top NPC team are probably not far off the SRAU teams, it would give them more games against different styles, has to be better than getting smashed most games
I don't think it would. If anything it's likely to result in a comfortable feeling that because you're competitive you're doing alright.
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@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
What we're not privy to is discernible markers of this increased interest - crowd numbers, memberships, supporter gear purchases etc.
isn't that a very oldschool approach, hasn't tv demand and associated revenue long surpassed those turning up to the ground, especially when talking about a national/international comp and especially especially during covid when the rare few that might fly around to watch their team...cant/wont
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
Players often talk about the relentless nature of the Nz v NZ clashes. Having teams at a lower standard (usually one or two of Oz and SA) gave the players a break in the intensity (and probably the same for the Saffas).
That means our players will last longer. Look at the injury attrition this year.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
I don't see any benefit to NZ rugby. It would only create a greater divide between those top 5 NPC teams and the other 9 NPC teams.
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@kirwan said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
Players often talk about the relentless nature of the Nz v NZ clashes. Having teams at a lower standard (usually one or two of Oz and SA) gave the players a break in the intensity (and probably the same for the Saffas).
That means our players will last longer. Look at the injury attrition this year.
100%...but that only work for us, and even then you still risk injury and there was more than one or two call on here for it being a waste of time and aus still see those games as super tough, can we really begrudge them for not being keen?
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@stargazer said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
I don't see any benefit to NZ rugby. It would only create a greater divide between those top 5 NPC teams and the other 9 NPC teams.
i have gone back a looked at this before and its not the same 5, sure canterbury and auckland are often up there but the other 3 spots has had a really good rotation over the last 10 years
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
What we're not privy to is discernible markers of this increased interest - crowd numbers, memberships, supporter gear purchases etc.
isn't that a very oldschool approach, hasn't tv demand and associated revenue long surpassed those turning up to the ground, especially when talking about a national/international comp and especially especially during covid when the rare few that might fly around to watch their team...cant/wont
I think we can agree that it's a declining percentage as viewership increases, but there will still, be those who engage/ reengage. I sincerely doubt the Tahs crowds were impacted by covid, rather than their results.
Ultimately it's up to Australians themselves whether they accept that Australian rugby has moved back to its historical mean. There's an awful lot of supporters around my age who expect and yearn for the success they had during the 90s. And they're bitter and angry. For some reason it's New Zealand's fault for not losing more.
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@antipodean yeah, fair enough
I just think we might need to leave them too it for a while then at a club/domestic level as i think smashing them in 90% of cross over games may do more harm than good. As i said, the hard out rugby guys, guys that couldn't care less about AFL/NRL at my club had no interest in SRTT...so paying for a comp thats doing nothing for rugby in general much be a tough call for RA
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@kirwan said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
Players often talk about the relentless nature of the Nz v NZ clashes. Having teams at a lower standard (usually one or two of Oz and SA) gave the players a break in the intensity (and probably the same for the Saffas).
That means our players will last longer. Look at the injury attrition this year.
I actually think this uneven competition with pseudo-byes v the weaklings followed by hell for leather NZ derbies produce bad All Blacks (and bad coaches).
(I could argue that) it results in NZ splunking like crazy with a 110% quarterfinal effort backed up by a 70% effort semifinal.
I'd rather NZ rugby players perfected operating at 85 to 90% for the whole season. Win ugly even when tired or 'un-stimulated'. Playmakers experienced at dragging some mediocre players with them not operating an RS4 on cruise control.
The hollowing out of South African and Australian franchises by NH clubs (and expansion) has changed the landscape, yet we are pretending we can operate like it is still 2001.
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But I'm biased.
I think NZ and Australia should be operating approx 10 team domestic comps.
With the North v South and NSW v Qld rep games, plus a Champions Cup, counting as the stepping stones to higher intensity test rugby.5 pro teams is bad.
International week-by-week club/franchise comps are bad.
