Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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Wow, what an incredible scorecard to wake up to. Based on the scorecard alone we are well on top, however, given the conditions being well on top can change to being well behind within the space of 30 minutes, so it's still right in the balance. Really great test so far, you know both teams will be mentally shattered at the conclusion given the war of attrition this has been - batmen being given nothing by the bowlers, but at the same time making the bowlers work hard to get their wicket.
Kyle is just incredible for someone so young. He has all of the physical attributes, but more importantly mentally he seems made for test cricket. Just gives the batsmen absolutely nothing, and forces them to take big risks if they want to score off him. Moves it both ways, hits the seam hard, and gets plenty of awkward bounce. He must be an absolute nightmare to face, and he absolutely dominated the Indian top order. And the scariest part about him is that he will only improve from here...
Special shout out to BJ behind the stumps as well - he has been absolutely superb in really challenging conditions.
The rest of the bowlers:
- Boult was really, really good. Had the Indian batsmen under huge pressure trying to guess which balls would go across them, and which would hoop back in. Absolutely did Jadeja as well and really deserved that wicket.
- Southee well below his best but still a threat given how much swing he was getting. Hoping he makes amends in the second innings.
- Wags, we love Wags. Just so insanely consistent. A genuine threat swinging the ball, and can attack the batsmen with the shorter stuff if needed - loved the way he bought Rahane's wicket. I know it looked like Rahane just fell into an easy trap, but given how much concentration was needed to bat out there, setting that trap and chucking a few short balls his way was really smart cricket and Rahane couldn't mentally adjust quickly enough.
- CDG was good, but is not really a threat the way the other bowlers are. I think we over bowled him in the end, although he got past the edge a few times the Indians looked by far the most comfortable batting time against him. We should use him sparingly only.
Awesome platform has now been laid by the openers taking the shine off the ball. The Indians can't swing it like us so rely more on seam movement, which will decrease as the ball gets older. It's the spinners that worry me the most, they just come at you all day long waiting for a small mistake to pounce.
Huge chance for our two best players to take this game by the scruff of the neck and put us in a really dominant position. As others have said, a lead of even 50 will be significant, but ideally we want to push that past 100 if possible.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
era of NZ cricket that compares with the Windies in the 80s and the Aussies in the 2000s
dude.
I said “compares”, I mean that relatively. Latham, Taylor, Nicholls, Watling, Wagner, Southee and Boult are all very, very good by international standards and obviously amongst NZ crickets all time greats ( shallow pool though ). KW is an all time world great. Conway and Jamieson could not have made more compelling starts to their careers which I hope they continue.
CDGH has a great mullet.
Yeah ok, fair enough, we’re not quite there but we’re fucken good ok ?
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@siam said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
All set up for Colin with the bat🙂
Do we really need the endorsement of commentators and opposition fans? The play on the field says it all.
Whining about what people say when your team leaves it all out on the field is pretty lame.
Yeah - to be honest, I haven't really even noticed it.
I thought the commentators overstated and labored a bit how poorly we supposedly bowled in the first hour on day 1, but I've got the replay going in the background right now and the commentators seem to be saying plenty of nice things about us.
At the end of the day, they're commentating for about 1.5 billion Indians and 5 million neutrals, so it's going to be a bit tailored to the majority audience.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
And to round out thoughts on the match situation...the TAB currently says
Draw $1.32
NZ $3.90
India $11Don't forget - if the match is drawn - we share the title.
Those are crazy odds for India.
They could easily roll us for under 200 and build up a big lead. -
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They are really painting Jamieson as a freak, with his height, speed (not super quick but fast enough) and ability to swing the ball.
If he was playing in the early 2000's he would have broken down by now with a shit back..To put it into perspective, hes already played almost half of Shane Bonds total career in number of test matches.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They are really painting Jamieson as a freak, with his height, speed (not super quick but fast enough) and ability to swing the ball.
If he was playing in the early 2000's he would have broken down by now with a shit back..To put it into perspective, hes already played almost half of Shane Bonds total career in number of test matches.
shaddup shaddup shaddup SHADDUP!!!
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They are really painting Jamieson as a freak, with his height, speed (not super quick but fast enough) and ability to swing the ball.
If he was playing in the early 2000's he would have broken down by now with a shit back..To put it into perspective, hes already played almost half of Shane Bonds total career in number of test matches.
shaddup shaddup shaddup SHADDUP!!!
Id be amazed if he was fit enough to bowl in India's 2nd innings.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They are really painting Jamieson as a freak, with his height, speed (not super quick but fast enough) and ability to swing the ball.
If he was playing in the early 2000's he would have broken down by now with a shit back..To put it into perspective, hes already played almost half of Shane Bonds total career in number of test matches.
shaddup shaddup shaddup SHADDUP!!!
Id be amazed if he was fit enough to bowl in India's 2nd innings.
He’s shit. How can you rate a guy who’s never even played a test match in Asia ?
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
era of NZ cricket that compares with the Windies in the 80s and the Aussies in the 2000s
dude.
The 1999-2002 Australian side were dominant at home in favourable conditions and had a patchy record abroad against serious competition - but there wasn't a whole lot of it. It's not that far fetched.
I would still say we are a spinner, and a batter lighter than that Aussie side - but if the 2001/2 NZ side drew 0-0 with them I'd love to see what this side could do.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
era of NZ cricket that compares with the Windies in the 80s and the Aussies in the 2000s
dude.
The 1999-2002 Australian side were dominant at home in favourable conditions and had a patchy record abroad against serious competition - but there wasn't a whole lot of it. It's not that far fetched.
I would still say we are a spinner, and a batter lighter than that Aussie side - but if th2001/2 NZ side drew 0-0 with them I'd love to see what this side could do.
Completely off the top of my head……that side had all time legends in Hayden, Ponting, Gilly, Warne and McGrath. Very good players in Langer, Clark, Martyn, Hussey, Lee and Gillespie. ( I’m probably forgetting one or two )
Looking at it that way their team is better overall I’ll admit.
Unlike us they didn’t fuck round with trying to shoehorn an all rounder in there until the DRS kid made his debut.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Completely off the top of my head……that side had all time legends in Hayden, Ponting, Gilly, Warne and McGrath. Very good players in Langer, Clark, Martyn, Hussey, Lee and Gillespie. ( I’m probably forgetting one or two )
Looking at it that way their team is better overall I’ll admit.
Obviously Warne is a massive difference.
As a seam unit I think you can make the argument whoever our best three quicks are equal to, and in some conditions superior to McGrath/Gillespie/Lee and we are certainly deeper than they were (hello Scott Muller!).
I don't see Gilchrist as a huge upgrade on Watling (at least peak Watling with the bat - he has kept as good as ever this test). Controversial, but Gilchrist's test record when Australia were put under pressure (2001 India tour, 2005 Ashes) is shithouse. Very good at making the third century, not so good at making the first. Watling is the reverse.
Batting wise is the issue. Ponting and Williamson cancel each other out. I love Roscoe, but apart from his purple patch post eye surgery it's hard to rate him better than Hayden or Steve Waugh in a test match environment. Conway is obviously a wild card - but early returns are promising.
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Completely off the top of my head……that side had all time legends in Hayden, Ponting, Gilly, Warne and McGrath. Very good players in Langer, Clark, Martyn, Hussey, Lee and Gillespie. ( I’m probably forgetting one or two )
Looking at it that way their team is better overall I’ll admit.
Obviously Warne is a massive difference.
As a seam unit I think you can make the argument whoever our best three quicks are equal to, and in some conditions superior to McGrath/Gillespie/Lee and we are certainly deeper than they were (hello Scott Muller!).
I don't see Gilchrist as a huge upgrade on Watling (at least peak Watling with the bat - he has kept as good as ever this test). Controversial, but Gilchrist's test record when Australia were put under pressure (2001 India tour, 2005 Ashes) is shithouse. Very good at making the third century, not so good at making the first. Watling is the reverse.
Batting wise is the issue. Ponting and Williamson cancel each other out. I love Roscoe, but apart from his purple patch post eye surgery it's hard to rate him better than Hayden or Steve Waugh in a test match environment. Conway is obviously a wild card - but early returns are promising.
Gilly changed the game with his batting returns and the rate at which he got them. You are probably right in that he flayed demoralised attacks more than saved matches for Oz though.
Taylor would fit in that “very good” Australian bracket ( in and around Hussey, Martyn, Langer, M Waugh, etc ) but no shame in that and time will tell where Jamieson and Conway end up.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
And to round out thoughts on the match situation...the TAB currently says
Draw $1.32
NZ $3.90
India $11Don't forget - if the match is drawn - we share the title.
Those are crazy odds for India.
They could easily roll us for under 200 and build up a big lead.They could - but, with both fingers crossed and behind my back - they need quite a lot to go their way from here.
Firstly, they probably need the weather to be better tonight than forecast. And the moment the forecast would see the first session and a half washed out and light probably an issue in the third session.
Then they need us to fall in a heap...twice.
And they may need themselves to get bowled out for a middling (but not disastrous) score, because I'm not sure Virat would have the balls to set us a gettable target.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
And to round out thoughts on the match situation...the TAB currently says
Draw $1.32
NZ $3.90
India $11Don't forget - if the match is drawn - we share the title.
Those are crazy odds for India.
They could easily roll us for under 200 and build up a big lead.They could - but, with both fingers crossed and behind my back - they need quite a lot to go their way from here.
Firstly, they probably need the weather to be better tonight than forecast. And the moment the forecast would see the first session and a half washed out and light probably an issue in the third session.
Then they need us to fall in a heap...twice.
And they may need themselves to get bowled out for a middling (but not disastrous) score, because I'm not sure Virat would have the balls to set us a gettable target.
I would suggest that is a particular talent we are well versed at, particularly if under pressure (even if that pressure is on themselves and not seen on the field). Hasnt happened much lately, but things like playing Australia or playing finals,.. recent consistency disappears
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@siam said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
There are indian fans somewhere in the world telling each other to check out the crap being spouted on a nz sports forum.😉😀
Basically we found Jamieson and Conway, otherwise we're the team that got annihilated in Australia last time
We also smacked the Indians in NZ, who then went on to do the Aussies in their own back yard. Cricket can be a funny game at times, and it's fair to say everything that could have gone wrong on that Aus tour did, including no prep, losing a bowler to injury early in a test, and getting the worst of the pink ball conditions. Credit to Aus though, they did not take their foot off the throat after our early set backs.
That's probably what grates Paine so much though. Knowing that all they needed to do to make the final was do exactly what we did, beat India at home. But instead they crumbled in front of their own fans. That has to hurt.
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