Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
You can see the same thing a few decades ago where Shaun Pollock, who could certainly hold a bat, but by no means was a match winner, got his average to around 32 within a run of Botham/Flintoff/Cairns on two test centuries.
To me CdG with the bat is an overqualified 8 or below average 7. While totally different in his method he is pretty similar to Vettori in reliability and effectiveness; very much in it to win it against SL/Pakistan/Windies/Bangles and finds it much tougher going against the top teams although not totally out of his depth as his returns in Australia show.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
So, you're sure we shouldn't go with Satnav's 7@87.28?
That's a bit cruel.
Ajaz is pretty good. 13 @25.07
fuck the spinner, he's not going to trouble the Indians anyway. Pick the 4 good seamers in England and back them to roll through them
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Since Jan 2019.
Southee 72 Wickets @ 22.98
Wagner 68 Wickets @ 20.50
Boult 54 Wickets @27.64
Jamieson 39 Wickets @15.15
CDG 16 Wickets @37.12Nothing wrong with Boult's figures, they compare well to his career average but are certainly not as good as the others.
surely that answers the question. Pick those 4, a keeper, and 6 batsmen. Take 20 wickets and if we don't score enough runs that's on the top and middle.
So, you're sure we shouldn't go with Satnav's 7@87.28?
That's a bit cruel.
Ajaz is pretty good. 13 @25.07
fuck the spinner, he's not going to trouble the Indians anyway. Pick the 4 good seamers in England and back them to roll through them
Testify!!!
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
You can see the same thing a few decades ago where Shaun Pollock, who could certainly hold a bat, but by no means was a match winner, got his average to around 32 within a run of Botham/Flintoff/Cairns on two test centuries.
To me CdG with the bat is an overqualified 8 or below average 7. While totally different in his method he is pretty similar to Vettori in reliability and effectiveness; very much in it to win it against SL/Pakistan/Windies/Bangles and finds it much tougher going against the top teams although not totally out of his depth as his returns in Australia show.
Possibly unfair to compare hundreds with Stokes, he’s played a lot more tests but I will concede he has improved a lot with the willow of late.
I don’t disagree with any of this at all but it comes back to my initial point of whoever getting picked will have flaws. You just need to balance those of CDGH against Patel ( a genuine tailender, juror out whether he can trouble the Indians ) Santner ( can’t take wickets, horribly inconsistent batsman ) or Mitchell ( inexperienced, not much to suggest he can be a dominant bowler at this level )
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@rotated said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
They kind of do though - at least with the bat. He averages 36 with one test century whereas Stokes averages 37 with ten test centuries. Jacob Oram averaged 36 on five test centuries. Three very different batsmen against decent bowling.
True. Different teams though. I can't answer this - but how many times has CDG been sent out to smack quick runs compared to the others having to rescue the team when their top order had failed? How often has he even had the time to score a ton? Ben Stokes also has 71 tests compared to 25 so not much to compare there in terms of centuries.
We have also won quite a few tests convincingly more recently with this team. 25 matches and 38 innings for CDG (around 1.5 innings per test), Oram 33 and 59, so nearly always had to bat twice, Stokes 71 and 130 basically bats 2 innings every time on the field. Just different circumstances.
I also believe that we need to hedge our bets with a fifth bowler. Ferg going down in Perth was a disaster and set the tone for the whole series. Sure this a one off, but could 3 of the 4 get through the overs required if someone went down? We don't have our usual batsman that can bowl a bit (Kane doesn't want to).
Just surmising about all of it but an injury would really leave us with 3 bowlers.
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Cool. Tim Paine has given India the kiss of death.
A bonus chance to put some egg on face.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Cool. Tim Paine has given India the kiss of death.
A bonus chance to put some egg on face.
At least our keeper can score hundreds you Australian Fuck.
Jeepers, I’m channeling a lot of @Virgil with that post.
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@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
At least our keeper can score hundreds you Australian Fuck.
Jeepers, I’m channeling a lot of @Virgil with that post.Yes, but you are both right as is @mariner4life .
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
He needs to get tips from Cantabs on how to dismiss the worth of the game when his team isn't in it.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
Make him look less of a loser if India wins, the team that thumped his rabble at home earlier this year.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
It really goes back to your post about respect.
Unfortunately, the way Australia beat seven shades of shit out of us and then lost to India - you can see why Tim might think this way.
It sort of ignores lots of other stuff though - including that pretty much everything that could go wrong did on that tour. So hopefully, that tour was anomalous - and this forthcoming game gives us an opportunity to show that.
And that this time we're the guys who've had better preparation, that hopefully we're not going to have any crucial injuries and we're not going to be playing pink ball cricket in Perth where we lose the toss, a quick bowler and start our innings under lights.....
On the plus side, it must rankle the fuck out of Tim that we're in this game and he's not - and will rankle worse if we win.
My prediction is that it will end up in a draw though. Not enough incentive to go all out for the win when the title can be shared.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
It really goes back to your post about respect.
Unfortunately, the way Australia beat seven shades of shit out of us and then lost to India - you can see why Tim might think this way.
It sort of ignores lots of other stuff though - including that pretty much everything that could go wrong did on that tour. So hopefully, that tour was anomalous - and this forthcoming game gives us an opportunity to show that.
And that this time we're the guys who've had better preparation, that hopefully we're not going to have any crucial injuries and we're not going to be playing pink ball cricket in Perth where we lose the toss, a quick bowler and start our innings under lights.....
On the plus side, it must rankle the fuck out of Tim that we're in this game and he's not - and will rankle worse if we win.
My prediction is that it will end up in a draw though. Not enough incentive to go all out for the win when the title can be shared.
It would totally rankle him and OZ cricket that we are there and they arent. They have dominated the game the last 20 odd years, multiple ODI World Cup wins, record winning streaks etc. Now at the worse possible time they have a shit team held up by a single cheating fluff bunny and a couple of great bowlers.
This WTC came about 10 years too late for them. -
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@crucial no one gives a fuck what you think Tim. You're a bog-average cricketing footnote only selected as a PR exercise to try and get the mums of Australia to like the side again. Jog right the fuck on.
It really goes back to your post about respect.
Unfortunately, the way Australia beat seven shades of shit out of us and then lost to India - you can see why Tim might think this way.
It sort of ignores lots of other stuff though - including that pretty much everything that could go wrong did on that tour. So hopefully, that tour was anomalous - and this forthcoming game gives us an opportunity to show that.
And that this time we're the guys who've had better preparation, that hopefully we're not going to have any crucial injuries and we're not going to be playing pink ball cricket in Perth where we lose the toss, a quick bowler and start our innings under lights.....
On the plus side, it must rankle the fuck out of Tim that we're in this game and he's not - and will rankle worse if we win.
My prediction is that it will end up in a draw though. Not enough incentive to go all out for the win when the title can be shared.
It would totally rankle him and OZ cricket that we are there and they arent. They have dominated the game the last 20 odd years, multiple ODI World Cup wins, record winning streaks etc. Now at the worse possible time they have a shit team held up by a single cheating fluff bunny and a couple of great bowlers.
This WTC came about 10 years too late for them.I’d say three brilliant batsmen, three brilliant pace bowlers and a very good spinner but aside from them the team is shite.
They will fucken arse rape the English in the ashes though.
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Coach Gary Stead confirmed his final 15 names on Tuesday, for Friday night’s (9.30pm NZT) decider at the Ageas Bowl near Southampton, as Mitchell Santner, Daryl Mitchell, Doug Bracewell, Rachin Ravindra and Jacob Duffy were cut from the extended 20-man squad who beat England 1-0.
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Santner cut!
Henry, Blundell and Young as reserves.
Choice on CDG or Patel presumably based on weather/pitch/possibly toss
I worry that CDG is underdone. If they pick him I'm happy to be proved wrong. At Lord's he got 0 and 9 with the bat, and didn't get any wickets
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
Santner cut!
Henry, Blundell and Young as reserves.
Choice on CDG or Patel presumably based on weather/pitch/possibly toss
Pretty much. A possibility that both might play, as outlined above.
I think they've got the XV spot on - though I wouldn't have minded Mitch Jr instead of CdG.
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CdG is a fine no. 7 - if we want a specialist bat, fair enough, but an average of 36 at 7 is easily international class. I think his batting stats (SR 81.5) also reflect that his job is usually to go in and score quickly after the top 6 have put on sizeable score and they are angling for a declaration. The only reason not to pick him is bowling.
