Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final
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I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
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@crucial said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
I have been searching for some kind of meaningful stat on how India handle playing with a Duke ball. Upshot is that there is little obvious change.
Given that the only real comparison is how they generally perform away against the Kookaburra I can't see much.Their average win rate against SA, Aus and NZ with the K ball is a little higher than against Eng and WI with the Duke.
The biggest differences in comparison are vs Eng (D) and Oz (K) - 14.5% v 17.3 and vs WI (D) and NZ (K) 17.6% and 20%.
So maybe a touch of an indication that historically the Duke is their least effective ball and maybe that the worst combo of all is the Duke in English conditions.
I had a quick look on cricinfo going through their current players stats in England. Doesnt make great reading.
10 tests in England Kohli only averages 36.Sub continent teams have historically struggled in seam/swing friendly countries like England and NZ. Though this current and recent Indian side differs alot from past teams.
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@crucial I did see a quote from Bumrah saying that he prefers bowling with the Duke ball. If the ball seams and swings around that is good news for us, as the NZ batsmen are more used to those conditions and we saw how India struggled in NZ.
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i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
Possibly better than CDGH, not definitely.
Young isn’t in this discussion as he’s very much a specialist batsman who will be counting the days til Rossco calls time.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. If it were up to me he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team. Knowing Stead he’ll chuck Santner and Mitchell in as options too.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
If it comes down to CDGH vs Mitchell then surely the former gets the nod ? What has Johns son EVER done at test level with the ball ? His first class stats ( 80 wickets in 79 matches ) don’t exactly scream frontline bowling material.
Conway gets in at a canter but I’m not sure I’d want another inexperienced player in Mitchell there too.
He's the best batsman of the candidates though - maybe excepting Young, who doesn't bowl.
I wouldn't expect him to bowl much - if things go well, not at all!
But, yeah - Colin offers more threat with the ball
Possibly better than CDGH, not definitely.
Young isn’t in this discussion as he’s very much a specialist batsman who will be counting the days til Rossco calls time.
I'm going with at least "probably" better. By pretty much every metric including first class and one day cricket, he's superior.
Other people have picked Young in their XI, but I agree - I can't see them picking him - thinking about it, I'd actually pick Blundell ahead of Young.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
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@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
they kinda do though
He's barely played away from home. He has a good number of games against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and the Windies. 1 century and 8 50s from 38 innings, countered by 5 ducks.
His best serious series is in Australia where he averaged 30 by hitting 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 9.
With the ball he gets a wicket an innings, at a respectable rate of a little under 2.5
As you say, you look at the numbers and he's looking alright. BUT, his batting technique is a bit shit for long form cricket, so his best option is really to hit out and get those 30-odd as quick as he can (he averages about 38 balls an innings) And for a wicket to wicket slow medium bowler to tie up an end i wouldn't mind a few more runs than that at 7.
It's also telling his first class stats are so similar to his test stats.
I will absolutely concede that Daryl Mitchell's numbers don't exactly create a telling counter-argument. And i can't remember for the life of me what his technique is like.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
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@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
i see the logic in picking CDG at 7.
On his day he can nick the odd wicket out and he can certainly club the shit out of any bowling attack. A quick counter attacking 50 might be a huge help. Only issue is hes hardly played the last 12 months.But id be far more confident then having him over Satnav.
I did hope Mitchell might have done more with his 1 chance but it didnt come to much.
You’ve summed him up pretty well, he has the aura ( particularly on here ) of someone who has fluked a very good test career so far but is moments away from being found out by the top sides.
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
they kinda do though
He's barely played away from home. He has a good number of games against Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and the Windies. 1 century and 8 50s from 38 innings, countered by 5 ducks.
His best serious series is in Australia where he averaged 30 by hitting 50, 40, 30, 20, 10 and 9.
With the ball he gets a wicket an innings, at a respectable rate of a little under 2.5
As you say, you look at the numbers and he's looking alright. BUT, his batting technique is a bit shit for long form cricket, so his best option is really to hit out and get those 30-odd as quick as he can (he averages about 38 balls an innings) And for a wicket to wicket slow medium bowler to tie up an end i wouldn't mind a few more runs than that at 7.
It's also telling his first class stats are so similar to his test stats.
I will absolutely concede that Daryl Mitchell's numbers don't exactly create a telling counter-argument. And i can't remember for the life of me what his technique is like.
He’s definitely a guy who will come in and make a good score even better and at a quick rate of knots. The flipside there is that he’s certainly not a guy you’d want to knuckle down and bat for your life.
With 10 of this 11 locked in ( I think we can all agree with that ) the 11th guy will come in with big question marks one way or another. We have to live with that.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
His figures in both disciplines don’t lie though. I think he’s in a straight shootout with Patel for a spot in the team.
Yep. We either play a spinner or we don't. Batting better with CDG, so it will all come down to pitch and conditions.
Ajaz has a bowling average of just over 30 as well so in English conditions do we need him, against India? Batting ave 9. So the net gain is quite large with CDG. Not all about numbers but the side looks more balanced.
If they look at the pitch and decide they need a spinner - who would be comfortable with Ajaz replacing Wags? In a way - that's the logical change - rather than leaving out a batsman/allrounder.
For me - 8. Kyle. 9. Wags. 10. Southee. 11. Boult is a strong tail and a point of advantage over India.
Bump them all one higher and stick Ajaz in - suddenly that's a long tail and a bit frail.
Someone ban this guy.
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@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Yeah - that's what I reckon, as well.
If spin is going to be important, let's cut our losses and play for a draw - include an extra batsman.
But, if we're really sold on balance and including a spinner, you can't go past...
Latham, Conway, Williamson, Taylor, Nicholls, Watling, de Grandhomme, Jamieson, Southee, Patel, Boult.
But, the reports from the groundsman sounds like he's aiming to provide pace and bounce - and not too much sideways movement. It's England - the pitch isn't going to get baked over five days.
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@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Wags has to play. He’s the guy who can bowl a 10+ over spell and still give it his all. Pretty sure his figures have been the best for any of the bowlers the last 2 or 3 years too.
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
I’d still pick all 4 quicks though. ( not Henry) -
@mn5 said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@mariner4life said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
you know what is going to fuck me off?
Despite all our "recent" success (it's actually like 6-7 years of sustained high performance) there is still no respect on our name.
We get shit tour schedules, 2 test series, and shoved to the outsides of domestic summers by asshole teams we are actually better than, but are clinging to history, or the fact there are a billion of them, and they have nothing else in their lives.
By the time other countries wise up (if that ever happens) this generation of players will have moved on, we won't be as good, results will fall, and we will get shunted back from any better fixtures we might have been able to access.
While these times are all sorts of awesome, the lack of recognition irks me.
Yeah I think at one stage Alastair Cook had played about twice as many tests as Ross Taylor despite them debuting around the same time and being about the same age ?
The lack of respect shits me too. How good would a five test series be against this English team ?
I remember when Taylor was mid-career I used that Cook comparison when extrapolating his stats.
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@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
That's also an interesting question.
The Indians aren't going to have many left handers.
Edit: Actually, the might only have Pant in the top order.
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@chris-b said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@virgil said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@snowy said in Cricket 2021: NZ in England and WTC Final:
@chris-b If they decide we need a spinner we are actually in a bit of poo I reckon. I would not be leaving Wags out and I agree we get stretched to thin in the lower order. It's England, how spin friendly can it be (he says moving another sofa to hide behind)?
Of the 4 who might be considered a weak link it would be Boult
That's also an interesting question.
The Indians aren't going to have many left handers.
He’s been left behind by Wags and Southee and then overshadowed by Jamison. Will look up his stats but I’d be surprised if they have been that good recently
