-
Chem trails are by far my favourite form of lunacy
-
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="528628" data-time="1444986033">
<div>
<p>The BBC knew before it happened ? Really?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's a certified classic. BBC reporter announces the collapse of WTC 7 while the building is on camera still standing over announcer's shoulder. There could be a number of good explanations for this, but... still waiting.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>The owner of the building Larry Silverstein is also on camera telling an interviewer he told NYFD to "pull" the building. Suspicious stuff...!!! Steel framed skyscrapers around the world have been torched like "Towering Infernos" many times and will burn for days, but to date only three of them collapsed from fire, all three collapsed in the same plaza, on the same day, in the same "free-fall" with dickall resistance, and only one of them was not hit by a plane.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Statistically impossible, or so the Architects and Engineers and Fire Departments For Truth say in their explanations. Then again, who/what are these guys qualifications & credentials? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then again-then again, until the president and Congress un-redacts the classified 28 Pages of the official 9/11 Report, all of us who aren't members of the Royal House of Saud might want to read them before drawing more conclusions.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It's a tangled web. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="528637" data-time="1444988288">
<div>
<p>How did building 7 catch fire esp on this day. And then why did it fall down so quickly.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Silverstein's explanation:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1) Fire started by debris.</p>
<p>2) In consultation with Fire Department, he agreed they should "pull it" (demolish, collapse building). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Silverstein paid $14 million dollars of his own money to purchase WTC complex only 2 months prior to 9/11 and then cashed-in nearly $4-billion in insurance when the buildings collapsed. (He was disappointed, he wanted more.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And of course, as most property owners and architects and engineers recommend, he quickly re-furbished his new properties by installing into his skyscrapers thermite and pre-fabricated shake-charges so that if what Condaleeza Rice claimed was <em>unimaginable</em> actually happened and planes flew into buildings hundreds of yards away, he could immediately "pull" the nearby building that hadn't been hit for faster plaza re-development. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So the story goes...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="528664" data-time="1445008147">
<div>
<p>It's a certified classic. BBC reporter announces the collapse of WTC 7 while the building is on camera over announcer's shoulder. There could be a number of good explanations for this, but... still waiting. The owner of the building Larry Silverstein is also on camera telling an interviewer he told NYFD to "pull" the building. Suspicious stuff...!!!</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>The simplest answer is almost always the right one, experts were saying that building was almost certain to drop, with 24/7 news channels the key is to report things exactly when they happen, so every reporter there would have been briefed on that building & what would happen when it went etc. And from there its a hair trigger to be "first!!". Add to that things were a wee bit chaotic.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Its no different to the BBC announcing that the Queen had died. MSBNC tweeted that Obama had been killed. Before then correcting it to Osama... Fox News announced it (Obama shot). No one gave a shit because there wasn't anything after. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>The process is literally "we have 10 prepared stories that we cannot miss (Obama shot, Queen dead, Pope dead, Russia invades Estonia, Kim Kardashian haircut etc) and the news agencies are on a hair trigger for any of those.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>You can go back all the way to "Dewey Defeats Trueman" probably the most famous presidental news headline. Or the way all the US news networks called the 2000 election.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Sometimes the press just feck up -</p>
<p> </p>
<p><a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-zealand-herald-apologises-using-photo-jackass-star-ryan-dunn-story-about-killed-israeli-1458718'>http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-zealand-herald-apologises-using-photo-jackass-star-ryan-dunn-story-about-killed-israeli-1458718</a></p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="528665" data-time="1445009346">
<div>
<p>Silverstein's explanation:</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1) Fire started by debris.</p>
<p>2) In consultation with Fire Department, he agreed they should "pull it" (demolish, collapse building). </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Silverstein paid $14 million dollars of his own money to purchase WTC complex only 2 months prior to 9/11 and then cashed-in nearly $4-billion in insurance when the buildings collapsed. (He was disappointed, he wanted more.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And of course, as most property owners and architects and engineers recommend, he quickly re-furbished his new properties by installing into his skyscrapers thermite and pre-fabricated shake-charges so that if what Condaleeza Rice claimed was <em>unimaginable</em> actually happened and planes flew into buildings hundreds of yards away, he could immediately "pull" the nearby building that hadn't been hit for faster plaza re-development. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>So the story goes...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>OK that seems plausible :mocking:</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="528668" data-time="1445010106">
<div>
<p>Its no different to the BBC announcing that the Queen had died. MSBNC tweeted that Obama had been killed. Before then correcting it to Osama... Fox News announced it (Obama shot). No one gave a shit because there wasn't anything after.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>True, big news agencies have Obituary Departments where they construct long-form pieces for events they know like death & taxes will transpire, guaranteed, 100%. Those stories are prepared in advanced and retained on file.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I suspect "WTC #7 will collapse under it's own weight from some falling debris" is not one of those prepared stories. So maybe it's a <span style="font-size:10px;">teeny</span>-bit different.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Then again, I just watched the 7th-inning of the Jays-Rangers elimination Game 5 only two days ago, so nothing would surprise me any more.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="528672" data-time="1445011767">
<div>
<p>True, big news agencies have Obituary Departments where they construct long-form pieces for events they know like death & taxes will transpire, guaranteed, 100%. Those stories are prepared in advanced and retained on file.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I suspect "WTC #7 will collapse under it's own weight from some falling debris" is not one of those prepared stories. So maybe it's a <span style="font-size:10px;">teeny</span>-bit different.</p>
<p> </p>
<p><span style="color:#ff0000;">Then again, I just watched the 7th-inning of the Jays-Rangers elimination Game 5 only two days ago, so nothing would surprise me any more.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>There you go. These things do happen. Like bullets that kill very important people do not travel in straight lines. Or men in caves ...</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="528672" data-time="1445011767">
<div><br><p>I suspect "WTC #7 will collapse under it's own weight from some falling debris" is not one of those prepared stories. So maybe it's a <span style="font-size:10px;">teeny</span>-bit different.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>No, its not</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was flagged as coming down for several hours, so all the news prep there was "what is going to happen now? how do we prepare? What is the next story here?"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>and all the experts said "well that one is VERY likely to come down any minute" so they were preping for that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Same deal with "the queen has died", she had gone into hospital for a checkup, so the second she went in they prep'd for her to be dead. </p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="528558" data-time="1444976489">
<div>
<p>This stuff is like catnip for you isn't it? You know more about obscure cults...</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>There was a time I got paid to write about them. Sometimes critically, but usually explanatory stuff about the "prophets," followers and beliefs. Now it's just an enjoyable hobby.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>But if you'll permit me a minute to indulge myself, I'll tell you my own indirect conspiracy story route how I got into it -- and baseball!!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>In the mid-1970s I was hardcore rugby nut. I tried to catch every Auckland NPC match that didn't conflict with my game earlier in the morning. Ranfurly Shield fever, the whole lot. There was an hour-long radio program -- from memory, probably 7-8 pm, mid-week, maybe Tues-Weds-or-Thurs evening produced and broadcast nationally across the Radio NZ network. The show was produced out of the Wellington Studio & station (can't remember call sign or frequency).</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Angrily for me, the Auckland station 1ZB on 1070 khz AM only took the first half-hour of that program; and that program would be announcing in advance what would be coming in the program, and sometimes they would be having a discussion about Auckland and the Shield..." (!!!) but 1ZB would cut-away to other programming. Thirty minutes of rugby is plenty, they believed. (I know this, because that's what they told me when I started a letter-writing campaign.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>They were gonna talk about Auckland rugby down in Wellington, and some programmer in Auckland didn't want me to hear it. Conspiracy!!! I yelled. </p>
<p> </p>
<p>It seriously pissed me off. My transistor radio could not get a signal from Wellington. So dear ol' Granddad gave me a bigger tube radio that could pull-in the Wellington station, and I'd get on the phone and call long-distance and participate. (And truthfully, I've listened to radio in America pre-All-talk-sports The Fan and can tell you right now that this "Rugby Show" combined with Bickerstaff & Sinclair's nightly sports call-in show on Radio i in Auckland had the format close to nailed in isolation to what talk-sports radio is in North America today. Both were very much ahead of their time.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>1ZB went off air at midnight NZT. Transmitter would go off air about 5 mins later. 1070 frequency would open up clear-channel to Sydney, where it was 10pm Sydney time. I'd listen to harness racing at Harold Park, etc. Two hours later, midnight Sydney time, 2 am Auckland time, the Sydney transmitter would go off air, and KNX in Los Angeles would come through clear-channel.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>One thing led to another - the radio had a shortwave receiver - so I began listening to all the sports on BBC and Radio Australia and especially AFRTS (Armed Forces Radio & TV Service) broadcasting from Guam with a signal so strong across the Pacific that during day-time I could listen to playoff baseball games as strong and clear as I could Radio Hauraki, which was only a couple miles away. So, that's how I got into baseball -- listening to Major League games played in Philadelphia and Cincinnati relayed from Guam to my radio in Auckland. How cool is that!?!</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It behooves me to mention at this point that the isolation and conductivity of all the salt water around the islands meant that NZ is possibly the greatest place on the planet to receive long-distance radio signals -- and yet, I only knew one other kid from my childhood who regularly used a shortwave radio in NZ. It seems to me nowadays, with the internet, and back then there was only one TV channel and a bunch of radio stations that fell off air at midnight, that more kids didn't want to hear sports & music from the other side of the globe, but clearly they didn't, or nobody had taught them how.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyway, cut to the chase, when I came to North America, I needed the shortwave radio to listen to (again) BBC and Radio Australia, but most importantly to RNZI broadcasting AB test matches. These tests didn't even get scores printed in North American newspapers let alone get streamed on the internet (because there was no internet), so if you were an All Black fan in North America throughout the 1980s and pre-internet 1990s, a shortwave radio was an absolute requirement.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, listening to a shortwave radio in North America means the airwaves being blanketed 24 hours per day by Christian religious stations. Some of these stations sell regular airtime to fringe conspiracy theorist broadcasters (and quasi-racists) - they did then, and the "off-the-grid" movement has kept it that way. I began writing stories about fringe lunatics and pirate radio operators, and those got published. In the media world, if you get something published about a topic, they then designate you an "expert" or a "specialist" and invite you back and sell you that way. Whether you self-publish a fanzine or publish a blog, that's how it works. Now, I am in no respect an expert or specialist what-so-ever, but as I say did a bit of background research and published articles and interviewed a lot of these guys, like the legendary William Cooper ("Behold a Pale Horse," "Hour of the Times") who was difficult, and the Last Day Prophet of God Brother R.G. Stair, who broadcasts The Overcomer End-Times Ministry prophecy 24 hours a day, around the globe, for decades, paid by followers who live on the commune where he broadcasts from a former motel in South Carolina, hell, he was so suspicious he interviewed ME on air.)</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Bill Cooper was a strange guy who fulfilled his own prophecy getting killed in a shootout with federal police, and he "inspired" through his broadcasts Timothy McVeigh who blew up the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City. Now, I understood that David Koresh and his followers also listened to Cooper, so that made me immediately curious that I was a part of a very small fringe audience that comprised self-proclaimed prophets and terrorist-psychos. So I started getting more offers to write about this stuff. First time I interviewed Alex Jones, I thought he was an angry old guy my father's age (my god, that voice, stained by years of cigarettes and anger, I thought) and was later shocked when he did his part in Richard Linklater's "Waking Life" (his wife Violet worked for Linklater) that the first time I spoke with him he would have been in his early 20s!!! We had a good laugh about that when I interviewed him a few months after 9/11.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>With the internet these services are no longer required, so I don't write much about it. I still listen an hour-or-so a week to the shortwave conspiracy loons, they are endlessly entertaining and you learn lots of things that are either buried or not published at all in the newspaper, and get alternately amused, outraged and fascinated as they twist themselves into knots trying to connect all the dots and assemble a grand unified "theory."</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Anyhow, apologies about the long post, but, yeah, I've interviewed a pile of conspiracy theorists and prophets over the decades, have some understanding of their theories about the Illuminati and New World Order, etc., and it always amuses me how I accidentally stumbled into all of it by simply wanting to listen to rugby.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="528677" data-time="1445013114">
<div>
<p>No, its not</p>
<p> </p>
<p>It was flagged as coming down for several hours, so all the news prep there was "what is going to happen now? how do we prepare? What is the next story here?"</p>
<p> </p>
<p>and all the experts said "well that one is VERY likely to come down any minute" so they were preping for that.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Same deal with "the queen has died", she had gone into hospital for a checkup, so the second she went in they prep'd for her to be dead. </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Of course. I can see it all so clearly now.</p> -
<p>I'll transfer this post on the vaccines thread to this one.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Someone might like to contribute. Have we been lied to about macro (as opposed to micro) evolution? Its been brought up in the US election</p>
<p>NTA, on 15 Oct 2015 - 10:48 AM, said:<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/index.php?app=forums&module=forums§ion=findpost&pid=528235'><img src="http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_images/master/snapback.png" alt="snapback.png"></a></p>
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="528235" data-time="1444902510">
<div>
<p>What are your thoughts on evolution, Winger?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Start another thread please. But I won't contribute but would like to see what other think. Especially whether micro evolution is different to macro evolution. And how did life start (not part of evolution). And does evolution also include the non physical consciousness.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>And did God (or an intelligent force) show it's hand to start the process by the BIG BANG.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="528677" data-time="1445013114">
<div>
<p>and <strong>all the experts</strong> said "well that one is VERY likely to come down any minute" so they were preping for that.</p>
<p> </p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>"<u>All</u> the experts"...? I did not know that.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="red terror" data-cid="528687" data-time="1445016950">
<div>
<p>"<u>All</u> the experts"...? I did not know that.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>Really. I think 97% of the experts are in agreement on this. So it must be true.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>edit. To be honest its not even worth debating this subject anymore. Kiwipie was the first on TSF and was not supported. But maybe he would have more support now</p>
<p> </p>
<p>I initially thought though that gollum was on a wind up at first and maybe he is.</p> -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Winger" data-cid="528633" data-time="1444987270"><p>
When I say you are all over the place jegga. You can't even keep vaccine stuff to the right thread.<br><br>
Please try to do this<br><br>
No long vaccine stuff or AGW on these threads. There are other threads for this. This surely can be keep as a light hearted thread to discuss nutty conspiracy theories</p></blockquote>
That wasn't about vaccines, it was from one of the sources you regularly cite.<br>
My favourite conspiracy theory of his is the one about Microsoft bioengineering a flu, where do you stand on that? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="528668" data-time="1445010106"><p>
The simplest answer is almost always the right one, experts were saying that building was almost certain to drop, with 24/7 news channels the key is to report things exactly when they happen, so every reporter there would have been briefed on that building & what would happen when it went etc. And from there its a hair trigger to be "first!!". Add to that things were a wee bit chaotic.<br><br>
Its no different to the BBC announcing that the Queen had died. MSBNC tweeted that Obama had been killed. Before then correcting it to Osama... Fox News announced it (Obama shot). No one gave a shit because there wasn't anything after. <br><br>
The process is literally "we have 10 prepared stories that we cannot miss (Obama shot, Queen dead, Pope dead, Russia invades Estonia, Kim Kardashian haircut etc) and the news agencies are on a hair trigger for any of those.<br><br>
You can go back all the way to "Dewey Defeats Trueman" probably the most famous presidental news headline. Or the way all the US news networks called the 2000 election.<br><br>
Sometimes the press just feck up -<br><br><a class="bbc_url" href="http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-zealand-herald-apologises-using-photo-jackass-star-ryan-dunn-story-about-killed-israeli-1458718">http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/new-zealand-herald-apologises-using-photo-jackass-star-ryan-dunn-story-about-killed-israeli-1458718</a></p></blockquote>
<br>
They said a lot of stuff about looking for Midfle Eastern looking suspects after the Oklahoma bombing and a whole other bunch of inaccurate stuff that was later proved to be wrong. It happens in a lot when something of that magnitude happens I guess.<br><br><br>
Winger who really bombed the federal building in Oklahoma? -
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jegga" data-cid="528701" data-time="1445020627">
</p>
<div>
<p>Winger who really bombed the federal building in Oklahoma?</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p> </p>
<p>It's been a decade since I watched, but from memory possibly the best part in "Road to Tyranny" is the Oklahoma City bombing sequence. Jones does some legwork, but much of it was produced by professional news organization in OKC and Jones simply fair-use co-opted it and dresses it up with some of his trademark dot-connecting hyperbole & exaggeration ("<u>All</u> the evidence shows...," etc.), but there are riveting unanswered questions & discrepancies from the official account that suggest McVeigh had accomplices, and I don't mean Terry Nicol. The reconstructions starting in the middle of the second part and continuing into the third part below are Conspiracy Theory Gold.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
<p>Definitely worth watching for a primer, in three short parts</p> -
<p>pt3</p>
</p>
<p> </p>
<p>
<p> </p>
<p>Now, understand -- you need to parse Infowars. Some of the information, such as what's purportedly on those secret surveillance camera tapes, is definitely worth paying attention and pursuing. I want to see them. I want to know more about TWA 800, too. But where I'm asking myself the question -- <em>hmm, yeah, why haven't those tapes been released?</em> -- Jones has already raced directly to his confirmation-bias conclusion of mass concentration camps, mandatory biometric microchip implants and vaccination extermination. ("Just like Hitler used the Reichstag fire, to get martial law crankin' in Amerika.") Nevertheless the investigation done by Los Angeles Times with dramatic recreations & animation constructed by the local news NBC affiliate that are highlighted in Jones' doc is super creepy awesome.</p> -
Conspiracy - CIA ordered that Gough Whitlam be dismissed as OZ PM in 75. <br><br>
Facts - Labor party highly sceptical of ASIO. ASIO had been infiltrating the Communist Party of OZ which had strong links to the Labor Party and unions. ASIO had relationship with CIA about suspected Russian operatives in OZ. <br>
Whitlam came to power in 1972 and the record is that it verbally ordered that ASIO stop talking to CIA. ASIO didn't. -
<p>re 9/11, wasn't there one floating around for a while that a company had just purchased the food court underneath the WTC, and insured it for an obscene amount of money like a week before the attack?</p>
-
<p>most 'normal' insurance policies dont cover acts of terrorism, civil unrest, war etc...although I guess in certain locations you would be buying special cover for these scenarios.</p>
Your favourite conspiracy theories