Black Caps v Pakistan
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@delicatessen said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
What a special special team.
I'm explaining to my lad that this isn't normal for NZ cricket and to revel in it while we can. Best test team I can remember
I actually get a bit angry when I hear people saying they are waiting for the Black Craps to turn up.
We haven't been rubbish since McCullum and Hesson took over the team. There have been blips but it has been an upwards trajectory the whole way. This helps for the future of NZ cricket too as kids watch their idols at the top of the world!
Spot on. We've been steadily improving for quite a few years now. That said, this team is full of green generational talent for us... Similar to the great Aussie side of the late 90s. Just so many great players at the same time.
Kyle is a hell of a find. Remarkable player.
Spot on. Henry Nicholls will go to bed tonight with a test batting average of 43.91. Yet in terms of longevity/talent/impact etc I still think he's comfortably the 4th best batsman in this team.
We also have a keeper who is great at his job and scores crucial runs when needed.
Boult has been our main spearhead for a number of years but the reemergence of Southee, Wagner staying angry and Jamieson taking to test cricket better than ANY bowler I can remember possibly puts him at 4th place presently.
We don't have a test class spinner. Fuck it. No team is perfect. Last time we did the rest of the team was shithouse.
It's no coincidence this team is doing so well with the individuals we have running around.
Dammit I thought you were saying this to wind me up and I was about to bite.... but you're not wrong. Can't say Blundell or Watling are better batsmen.
Watling is extremely reliable but to me he’s still a keeper who just happens to be an excellent batsman. Blundell is still far too green to place any higher than he is.
Agree. Watlings batting is more based on attrition and grit, where Nicholls is more able to put bad balls away.
Yeh Blundell is green. Don't mind giving him more opportunity to develop, he's shown definite talent and hasn't gotten out to indisciplined shots this summer. -
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@booboo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
I'll just leave this here
How many of our players have those averages reversed?
Not to demean him unduly but MJ Henry averages:
Bat: 18.66
Bowl: 51.54Poor bugger
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@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
MOTM is gonna be tough. Poor old Nicholls won’t even get a look in despite his fine innings.
Kyle MOTM for sure. It's tough taking 20 wickets in a match, without his efforts the game would be meandering to a draw.
Not much doubt about MOTM now for mine. 6-38 in this innings.
The pitch has done a bit but we had effectively 4 centuries in our one innings over two days. So it was manageable.
Jamieson has completely taken that away from the Pakistan batsmen. Highest score of 93 over two innings (strangely Henry got Ali) but they just couldn't escape Jamieson. He just continued to take out batsmen that were set in both innings without even conceding runs.
Kane's innings was NZ's 12th highest in an innings.
Jamieson's match figures were NZ's 6th best ever.
On that basis, I think they got it right.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
MOTM is gonna be tough. Poor old Nicholls won’t even get a look in despite his fine innings.
Kyle MOTM for sure. It's tough taking 20 wickets in a match, without his efforts the game would be meandering to a draw.
Not much doubt about MOTM now for mine. 6-38 in this innings.
The pitch has done a bit but we had effectively 4 centuries in our one innings over two days. So it was manageable.
Jamieson has completely taken that away from the Pakistan batsmen. Highest score of 93 over two innings (strangely Henry got Ali) but they just couldn't escape Jamieson. He just continued to take out batsmen that were set in both innings without even conceding runs.
Kane's innings was NZ's 12th highest in an innings.
Jamieson's figures were NZ's 6th best ever.
On that basis, I think they got it right.
Yep. That was my thought as well, and the match situation to actually take the win. Not taking anything away from Kane, he put us in a position to win in the first place, but the old "batsmen can draw games, bowlers can win them" comes to mind.
I tried to find the number of double centuries compared to 10 wickets taken ever, to see which is rarer. Just a comparison because each match will have different circumstances that might make one achievement greater than the other, but I suspect that 10 is harder to achieve than 200 historically (over all teams)?
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@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
MOTM is gonna be tough. Poor old Nicholls won’t even get a look in despite his fine innings.
Kyle MOTM for sure. It's tough taking 20 wickets in a match, without his efforts the game would be meandering to a draw.
Not much doubt about MOTM now for mine. 6-38 in this innings.
The pitch has done a bit but we had effectively 4 centuries in our one innings over two days. So it was manageable.
Jamieson has completely taken that away from the Pakistan batsmen. Highest score of 93 over two innings (strangely Henry got Ali) but they just couldn't escape Jamieson. He just continued to take out batsmen that were set in both innings without even conceding runs.
Kane's innings was NZ's 12th highest in an innings.
Jamieson's figures were NZ's 6th best ever.
On that basis, I think they got it right.
Yep. That was my thought as well, and the match situation to actually take the win. Not taking anything away from Kane, he put us in a position to win in the first place, but the old "batsmen can draw games, bowlers can win them" comes to mind.
I tried to find the number of double centuries compared to 10 wickets taken ever, to see which is rarer. Just a comparison because each match will have different circumstances that might make one achievement greater than the other, but I suspect that 10 is harder to achieve than 200 historically (over all teams)?
Surely it is 200's over 10 wicket bags as only really one bowler can get a 10wicket bag in a test yet there may be 5 batsman that can score 200 over the two innings in a test match?
I can't wait to see results
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@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Snowy said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@No-Quarter said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
MOTM is gonna be tough. Poor old Nicholls won’t even get a look in despite his fine innings.
Kyle MOTM for sure. It's tough taking 20 wickets in a match, without his efforts the game would be meandering to a draw.
Not much doubt about MOTM now for mine. 6-38 in this innings.
The pitch has done a bit but we had effectively 4 centuries in our one innings over two days. So it was manageable.
Jamieson has completely taken that away from the Pakistan batsmen. Highest score of 93 over two innings (strangely Henry got Ali) but they just couldn't escape Jamieson. He just continued to take out batsmen that were set in both innings without even conceding runs.
Kane's innings was NZ's 12th highest in an innings.
Jamieson's figures were NZ's 6th best ever.
On that basis, I think they got it right.
Yep. That was my thought as well, and the match situation to actually take the win. Not taking anything away from Kane, he put us in a position to win in the first place, but the old "batsmen can draw games, bowlers can win them" comes to mind.
I tried to find the number of double centuries compared to 10 wickets taken ever, to see which is rarer. Just a comparison because each match will have different circumstances that might make one achievement greater than the other, but I suspect that 10 is harder to achieve than 200 historically (over all teams)?
Surely it is 200's over 10 wicket bags as only really one bowler can get a 10wicket bag in a test yet there may be 5 batsman that can score 200 over the two innings in a test match?
I can't wait to see results
actually it is 2 bowlers in a test (one from each team and 10 batsman (5 from each team)
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@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Well work today is going to suck without the cricket commentary in the background!
Doesn't the Aussie v India test start today at the SCG?
You're probably right, but yea, nah.
I'll probably check in on the score from time to time, but that's about the limit of my interest in games that the BC's aren't playing. -
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Hooroo said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
@Gunner said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Well work today is going to suck without the cricket commentary in the background!
Doesn't the Aussie v India test start today at the SCG?
You're probably right, but yea, nah.
I'll probably check in on the score from time to time, but that's about the limit of my interest in games that the BC's aren't playing.I love Aussie cricket. It filled a hole between the 80's and the Hesson/McCullum era
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@Snowy Yeah - I had a quick flick through the global stats on Cricinfo, but neither of these made the lists - so I reverted to the NZ stats.
But, I suspect you're right - with a couple of caveats.
Picking up 10 wicket bags - it helps if the other bowlers in your team aren't much chop. Or if you're a lone spinner on spinning decks.
Test matches | Bowling records | Most ten-wickets-in-a-match in a career | ESPNcricinfo
Find records of Most ten-wickets-in-a-match in a career in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.
Getting 10 as a seamer in a decent attack probably doesn't happen often. Note McGrath compared to Warnie.
Test matches | Batting records | Most double hundreds in a career | ESPNcricinfo
Find records of Most double hundreds in a career in Test matches only on ESPNcricinfo.
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Quite a few other caveats as well. Location / pitch, weather, match situation. How hard is a batsman pushing to get to 200? Does the bowler have enough runs already banked to get an attacking field? Etc, etc.
Your first caveat - Murali got heaps of 10w didn't he? Herath a few as well I think. So yes.
The second makes KJ's achievement even better, we have two other class bowlers in that side who also get the new ball ahead of him (which I agree with, for now, but is another discussion).
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Looks like there are 445 instances of bowlers getting 10 in a match and 385 instances of batsmen getting over 200 (including triples and Lara's quad).
So 10fers slightly more common. I don'thave time to dig much further now but would be interested to see that over time. My hunch is that 10fers have become less common and doubles more common. Murali has 5% of all 10fers, and Warne another 2% though so that might not be the case.
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@Cyclops said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Looks like there are 445 instances of bowlers getting 10 in a match and 385 instances of batsmen getting over 200 (including triples and Lara's quad).
So 10fers slightly more common. I don'thave time to dig much further now but would be interested to see that over time. My hunch is that 10fers have become less common and doubles more common. Murali has 5% of all 10fers, and Warne another 2% though so that might not be the case.
Wrong again. I'm on a roll!!
Cheers for the research
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@Cyclops said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
Looks like there are 445 instances of bowlers getting 10 in a match and 385 instances of batsmen getting over 200 (including triples and Lara's quad).
So 10fers slightly more common. I don'thave time to dig much further now but would be interested to see that over time. My hunch is that 10fers have become less common and doubles more common. Murali has 5% of all 10fers, and Warne another 2% though so that might not be the case.
In the TV commentary yesterday. They mentioned the NZ stats. I cant remember the exact number, but we had 2 more double hundreds than 10-fers.
Something like 36 to 34, or 26 to 24.
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@Cyclops said in Black Caps v Pakistan:
would be interested to see that over time. My hunch is that 10fers have become less common and doubles more common. Murali has 5% of all 10fers, and Warne another 2% though so that might not be the case.
I don't really count anything Murali did. Just my opinion on his action, but it would even out the numbers quite a bit.
Definitely be interesting over time as bats got better, pitches don't deteriorate as much (generally) 200 seems more common.
The 10fer list is seriously dominated by spinners. That's not going to happen in NZ. In fact the only bowler in the top 5 who isn't a spinner is paddles.
So my hunch is that your hunch is correct.
