Pasifika SR team
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The Drua will semi-work.
They do actually have an annual domestic youth conveyor belt of talent that can go through the Drua pathway . As Liam Napier says in his tweet on previous page; " long overdue step for development pathways in those communities". Of course this pathway already exists as the Drua are 3 or 5 years old or whatever. But would be professional rather than semi-pro.
The Drua will be the rugby equivalent of an Ajax or Porto in European football. A young player incubator good enough to compete but never challenge for the big prize anymore as the team is constantly broken up to sell its best players at the end of each year. But, it will serve a purpose and home fans will follow it regardless. It will kick start and speed up countless Fijian internationals into test rugby.
Moana Pacific however is a big lie. There is no " long overdue step for development pathways in those communities" of the Auckland Polynesian demographic. As the player pool this team will be fishing in already have better options, they will not get the best players. I guess they might get the odd Tongan or Samoan who want to use it as a pathway to Europe/Japan like I describe for Drua above.
But make no mistake - Super Rugby is a half season. Pacific franchise teams trying to pick Pacific-tied players while their national teams are playing virtually amateur test rugby means the whole project is pointless. The Folau Fakatavas of this world do not want to spend July playing friendlies for free for Tonga and August and September playing NPC for peanuts (while the 4th best halfback in NZ earns triple what he gets for this period). He wants to be a full time pro for or 9 months of the year and be paid what he is worth. There are 3 options for this; Europe club rugby, Japan club rugby or Super Rugby / TRC where playing for and contracted to either NZ or Aus.
Moana Pacific are the Brown Counties-Manukau but with a ball and chain. A pointless addition. Should have added a Knightiwhas as would be on an even playing field. Then added the PIs to TRC. Then you would actually get some good PIs opting to play for PIs.
It's the rugby equivalent of greenwashing. Looking like you're a good global citizen by doing something. But the something is just entrenching the status quo. If good go to NZ, if mediocre journeyman go to PI.
Using my European football analogy. It would be liking parachuting Newport County into the Premier League and only allowed to pick Welshmen.. But Cardiff City and Swansea City are already there as well as the English clubs and they are free to pick Welshmen, Englishmen, Brazilians ...
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conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
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@stargazer said in Pasifika SR team:
I can only think of Porirua ...
Tokoroa would be another option. It's a Pacific island already in a Pacific Island, with some famous players from the past. Kev would be stoked and maybe Quade would have stayed (and not been a dickhead)?
O.K. the last bit is a bit much. -
i get that you guys aren't keen for the expansion. But to be so fucking heartless as to force people to live in tokoroa is same next level hatred. You guys need jesus
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@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
and this is from a guy whose speciality is posting stupid Star Wars memes.
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@crucial said in Pasifika SR team:
@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
and this is from a guy whose speciality is posting stupid Star Wars memes.
you may have me confused with someone else
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@mariner4life cheap housing tho
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@yeetyaah said in Pasifika SR team:
@mariner4life cheap housing tho
i would imagine the burglary insurance premiums are through the roof.
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@yeetyaah said in Pasifika SR team:
Maybe even Waiheke Island.
There is a good coach there.
So what is the actual goal here? Simply more matches?
The end result could well be - To weaken the comp again? Keep adding teams until the standard is degraded and we, as sports fans, prefer the Bunnings NPC? The blues back to being shit? (Actually I think that is the master plan - but I like conspiracies).
I get it if they are based outside NZ and it encourages the PI nations to keep their players and can pay them properly. Give locals the chance to watch their team play, take the kids along, etc.
Otherwise where is the win? To quote @mariner4life from the cricket thread they are after the growth unicorn.
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@snowy said in Pasifika SR team:
So what is the actual goal here? Simply more matches?
The end result could well be - To weaken the comp again? Keep adding teams until the standard is degraded and we, as sports fans, prefer the Bunnings NPC? The blues back to being shit? (Actually I think that is the master plan - but I like conspiracies).
NZR wanted another NZ team. The current SR license holders didn't want that. Blues are the only NZ franchise without a private license holder, therefore no opposition to NZR. Blues get a team in their backyard.
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@duluth said in Pasifika SR team:
@snowy said in Pasifika SR team:
So what is the actual goal here? Simply more matches?
The end result could well be - To weaken the comp again? Keep adding teams until the standard is degraded and we, as sports fans, prefer the Bunnings NPC? The blues back to being shit? (Actually I think that is the master plan - but I like conspiracies).
NZR wanted another NZ team. The current SR license holders didn't want that. Blues are the only NZ franchise without a private license holder, therefore no opposition to NZR. Blues get a team in their backyard.
my guess is they saw all those Tongan flags on the first day of the 2011 RWC and their eyes lit up. And if those fans can become engaged then it's not an idea without merit.
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@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
@duluth said in Pasifika SR team:
@snowy said in Pasifika SR team:
So what is the actual goal here? Simply more matches?
The end result could well be - To weaken the comp again? Keep adding teams until the standard is degraded and we, as sports fans, prefer the Bunnings NPC? The blues back to being shit? (Actually I think that is the master plan - but I like conspiracies).
NZR wanted another NZ team. The current SR license holders didn't want that. Blues are the only NZ franchise without a private license holder, therefore no opposition to NZR. Blues get a team in their backyard.
my guess is they saw all those Tongan flags on the first day of the 2011 RWC and their eyes lit up. And if those fans can become engaged then it's not an idea without merit.
Except, unless the rules are actual Island born/bred players, it'll be just another reduction in depth of the other NZ SR sides. And that is what is going to happen, you imagine if NZR was seen to be denying pacifika players the right to play - already there is coverage everywhere about all these pacifika players being kept from playing for the islands - everyone forgetting that a huge % were born and/or bred, their rugby skills honed, in NZ (or Oz)
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@machpants didn't read the posts a bit above this?
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@duluth said in Pasifika SR team:
Blues are the only NZ franchise without a private license holder, therefore no opposition to NZR. Blues get a team in their backyard.
I did not know that.
My conspiracy theory is completely valid, might as well put a grassy knoll in the middle of Eden Park. -
@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
@machpants didn't read the posts a bit above this?
Yeah, I'm just agreeing
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@machpants said in Pasifika SR team:
@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
@duluth said in Pasifika SR team:
@snowy said in Pasifika SR team:
So what is the actual goal here? Simply more matches?
The end result could well be - To weaken the comp again? Keep adding teams until the standard is degraded and we, as sports fans, prefer the Bunnings NPC? The blues back to being shit? (Actually I think that is the master plan - but I like conspiracies).
NZR wanted another NZ team. The current SR license holders didn't want that. Blues are the only NZ franchise without a private license holder, therefore no opposition to NZR. Blues get a team in their backyard.
my guess is they saw all those Tongan flags on the first day of the 2011 RWC and their eyes lit up. And if those fans can become engaged then it's not an idea without merit.
Except, unless the rules are actual Island born/bred players, it'll be just another reduction in depth of the other NZ SR sides. And that is what is going to happen, you imagine if NZR was seen to be denying pacifika players the right to play - already there is coverage everywhere about all these pacifika players being kept from playing for the islands - everyone forgetting that a huge % were born and/or bred, their rugby skills honed, in NZ (or Oz)
Yes would have to agree, it would be mainly a NZ domiciled playing base with a few from outside.I can't see how the NZR can put a rule in place to pick only players who are based in the Islands.
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NEXT STEPS IN PACIFIC ISLAND PROFESSIONAL TEAMS' JOURNEY CONFIRMED BY NZ RUGBY
In a significant step forward for Pacific Island rugby, Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua have been granted conditional licences to join a planned new professional competition next year, New Zealand Rugby (NZR) announced today.
The NZR Board’s decision to approve licences is a major step toward the two Pasifika teams joining NZR’s existing five Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa clubs and Rugby Australia’s (RA) five Super Rugby AU teams in a new tournament being planned for 2022 and is conditional on their final business plans and RA's support.NZR CEO Mark Robinson said:
“We are moving into the final phase of planning for 2022 and beyond, and we have confidence that Moana Pasifika and the Fijian Drua will be able to meet the conditions of the licence, which includes final sign off on a sustainable business plan by 30 June.
“In the next two months we will be working with Rugby Australia and the two Pasifika teams to formalise their place in the new competition for what we believe will kick off an exciting, new era for the professional game.”
Moana Pasifika Steering Committee Co-Chair and CEO of the Pacific Business Trust Pelenato Sakalia said:
“We are excited to finally be so close to bringing the dream to reality, but there is still hard work to do, and we cannot afford to miss the moment. This decision on a licence enables Moana Pasifika to proceed with confidence and complete a number of financial obligations to sign off in the coming weeks, and formalise our player, coach and staff recruitment.”
Not any info about where they will be based, where they can recruit their players from etc etc
