Pasifika SR team
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@stargazer do we know if Moana Pasifika will be based in NZ?
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@stargazer agreed, have to get the rules right, i do hope the existing teams wont hold on too tight to fringe players though, maybe the existing teams can protect a certain number and others can negotiate ?
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@kiwiwomble That depends on how you define "fringe players". IMO, players on development/academy contracts should be off limits. That's the depth that NZ franchises need in case of injury and for the future.
Personally, I think they should only be able to sign players that are capped by Tonga or Samoa, or are willing to declare for Tonga or Samoa (and thus forego on their chances of ever playing for NZ), but with the same number of exceptions as NZ franchises have for PI players.
The main aim of these teams should be to sign players from the Islands, not from NZ, because the purpose of Pasifika Moana (and the Drua) is to provide a professional pathway in the Pacific for PI players that want to play for Tonga/Samoa (to prevent them from going to Europe) and to get back players now based in Europe (to avoid the reluctance of European clubs to release these players when they want to play for Tonga/Samoa).
If they can just go after every player (of Pasifika heritage) in NZ without a full contract, that doesn't only damage New Zealand's depth, but it also doesn't do anything beneficial for rugby in Tonga/Samoa and it would only be an incentive for players from the Island to move to NZ.
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@mofitzy_ The Fijian Drua will probably be based in Fiji, just like they were when they played in the NRC.
Pasifika Moana, I'm afraid that will be in NZ, in a region with a large Pacific community. Other than Auckland, I can only think of Porirua ...
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@stargazer
Ok, but do they have a stadium? -
@mofitzy_ Obviously, the decision about where they'll be based will influence which stadium will be their home stadium, but also the reverse: where they'll find a suitable stadium is more likely to influence the choice of their base. Several stadiums around Auckland, I think? Maybe Pukekohe (Counties' stadium)? No idea how big that is. Jerry Collins Stadium in Porirua will probably be too small, althoug I like the ground. There's room for a stand at the other side, but it would be a huge decision with financial implications, to build one.
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The Drua will semi-work.
They do actually have an annual domestic youth conveyor belt of talent that can go through the Drua pathway . As Liam Napier says in his tweet on previous page; " long overdue step for development pathways in those communities". Of course this pathway already exists as the Drua are 3 or 5 years old or whatever. But would be professional rather than semi-pro.
The Drua will be the rugby equivalent of an Ajax or Porto in European football. A young player incubator good enough to compete but never challenge for the big prize anymore as the team is constantly broken up to sell its best players at the end of each year. But, it will serve a purpose and home fans will follow it regardless. It will kick start and speed up countless Fijian internationals into test rugby.
Moana Pacific however is a big lie. There is no " long overdue step for development pathways in those communities" of the Auckland Polynesian demographic. As the player pool this team will be fishing in already have better options, they will not get the best players. I guess they might get the odd Tongan or Samoan who want to use it as a pathway to Europe/Japan like I describe for Drua above.
But make no mistake - Super Rugby is a half season. Pacific franchise teams trying to pick Pacific-tied players while their national teams are playing virtually amateur test rugby means the whole project is pointless. The Folau Fakatavas of this world do not want to spend July playing friendlies for free for Tonga and August and September playing NPC for peanuts (while the 4th best halfback in NZ earns triple what he gets for this period). He wants to be a full time pro for or 9 months of the year and be paid what he is worth. There are 3 options for this; Europe club rugby, Japan club rugby or Super Rugby / TRC where playing for and contracted to either NZ or Aus.
Moana Pacific are the Brown Counties-Manukau but with a ball and chain. A pointless addition. Should have added a Knightiwhas as would be on an even playing field. Then added the PIs to TRC. Then you would actually get some good PIs opting to play for PIs.
It's the rugby equivalent of greenwashing. Looking like you're a good global citizen by doing something. But the something is just entrenching the status quo. If good go to NZ, if mediocre journeyman go to PI.
Using my European football analogy. It would be liking parachuting Newport County into the Premier League and only allowed to pick Welshmen.. But Cardiff City and Swansea City are already there as well as the English clubs and they are free to pick Welshmen, Englishmen, Brazilians ...
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conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
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@stargazer said in Pasifika SR team:
I can only think of Porirua ...
Tokoroa would be another option. It's a Pacific island already in a Pacific Island, with some famous players from the past. Kev would be stoked and maybe Quade would have stayed (and not been a dickhead)?
O.K. the last bit is a bit much. -
i get that you guys aren't keen for the expansion. But to be so fucking heartless as to force people to live in tokoroa is same next level hatred. You guys need jesus
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@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
and this is from a guy whose speciality is posting stupid Star Wars memes.
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@crucial said in Pasifika SR team:
@mariner4life said in Pasifika SR team:
conceptually i love this idea. the problem is the reality.
Island teams based out of the islands, playing in the islands, exposing the best local players (including those that have schooled in NZ/Aus) and providing a realistic pathway. Awesome. Who doesn't love it? Imagine popping up to Fiji for the weekend to watch the Chiefs then stay at on at Denarau? Great for the economy. Throw in a couple of teams with a different style to what we usually see, and there is little to quibble at.
Then the reality sets in. Local players using local facilities are going to be a fucking miiiiiiile behind the required standard. And horrendous beatings will be on the cards. So they'll need a few seasoned pros to help them out. Where do they get them from? The obvious hope is Europe. but what are the chances of Charlie Piatau leaving England to go live in Tonga/Samoa for a Super rugby salary? Then what are the chances of a guy from Auckland/Wellington doing the same? Neither are high. So you have to base in Auckland to be attractive. That's half the above advantages gone already. Broadcasters will whinge about the cost of showing games from the Islands, so again, base in Auckland please. You base in Auckland, and suddenly guys already here, and already in a semi-pro environment look so much better. So instead of providing a pathway for the Islands, you are eroding the paper-thin depth of NZ. Or staffing your team with players not good enough for NZ teams, so we are back to the beatings.
It might be better for everyone if the Tonga/Samoa team is based in Aus if it has to be anywhere.
and this is from a guy whose speciality is posting stupid Star Wars memes.
you may have me confused with someone else
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@mariner4life cheap housing tho
