'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean Ya but as a percentage of available professional players it's not even close. You pretty much exclusively produce Rugby players as winter athletes. We already only produce a fraction of what NZ (or SA) do.
Hence why Aus cant sustain more than 3 Franchises. And ... we're back at the start .......
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean It was around 60, the most by a factor of 3, NZ born players in other teams at RWC19. IIRC
Nope I remember incorrectly!
Obviously England right up there, when it is the same country at 3 others at the RWC.
I just like posting this bit of fact
Fuck looks like Stuff was wrong, surpise, and I was right!
53 NZ born, next was Eng 18 - also Oz 11 SA 10
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus But cutting a team will just remove more talent. It won't magically compress it. This getting circular, anyway. Ive said what i think will happen if you cut a team. A repeat of the Force cutting. I.e. nothing but damage.
But you have already cut a team in 2017. Had Covid not happened there wouldn't even be an argument for 5 teams. It would have been the 5 NZ teams and the existing 4 Aussie teams from SR.
Everything from your perspective is about what is best for Aussie rugby only. Why should NZ Rugby fans have to compromise and watch a lower standard of play by having 5 Aussie teams? This is what caused SR to fail, fans stopped watching due to one sided games once the expansion teams came in.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean Okay - so you are so prodigous at producing talent you also supply the NRL. What's your point? you still far and away eclipse us in terms of available talent. You have players ready and able to step into the vacuum when you lose say a mid tier SR level player.
We don't. That simple. Every player we lose means a drop in quality.
So we're in agreement that the talent pathways are the major difference. Australia really needs to address that, because adding a team at SR level is too late. There wasn't the quality of players to fulfil the additional squad. And this is why the number of Australian teams in a SR TT competition is in discussion. Historically speaking it would mean at least two Oz teams at the bottom of the ladder joined by whatever NZ franchise sucked at the time. And likely one good team (probs Brumbies) joining the other semifinalists.
Given the suggested comp of Sunwolves Mk II and a sixth NZ team (Pacifika), it's preferable to have five Australian teams until we can invite literally anyone else who can be at least mid-table. And brings heaps of cash. If
Argentinathe Jaguares could play SR, why not the Brave Blossoms?Which means the Force are still going to be arseholed out of the competition. If RA is prepared to do that again, sure...
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@antipodean who's going to be mid-table and bring in heaps of cash? Maybe if you invite the Japanese national team but otherwise im drawing blanks.
Hell, the Lions were the form South African team over the past five years and lets be honest, they were middling when compared to the NZ sides.
It would be great if you could magic up a highly competitive rugby competition which brought in lots of money and gave your current 5 teams a challenge. It's also a pipe dream.
I think there is plenty of merit to the suggestion that we should not have expanded. But i really don't think you can just 'undo' it and expect to end up where we started.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean who's going to be mid-table and bring in heaps of cash? Maybe if you invite the Japanese national team but otherwise im drawing blanks.
That's why suggested the Brave Blossoms: 'If
Argentinathe Jaguares could play SR, why not the Brave Blossoms?' -
@antipodean and that why i said 'pipe dream'.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I think there is plenty of merit to the suggestion that we should not have expanded. But i really don't think you can just 'undo' it and expect to end up where we started.
Why not? You did. Just because you let them into your own Super NRC doesn't mean anyone else is obliged to let them play. If SR started again next year, they'd still be told to fuck off.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean and that why i said 'pipe dream'.
The same pipe dream that had Argentina play SR...
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@antipodean yeah that went well for them... i can see why teams would be lining up to follow suit.
If your argument is 'you have to cut a team because otherwise we'll get the Brave Blossoms' i think im done here.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean yeah that went well for them... i can see why teams would be lining up to follow suit.
If your argument is 'you have to cut a team because otherwise we'll get the Brave Blossoms' i think im done here.
no, the argument is mainly
you already cut a team, for very good reasons. Why bring it back?
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@mariner4life Because Twiggy forest is a billionaire and he's chosen to pay for it. We cut it because we couldnt afford it (supposedly). If he is offering to foot the entire bill - why wouldnt we accept it.
But i wouldn't die on a hill for the Force. As you say, they are now separate to RA. The real issue is cutting another team.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean and that why i said 'pipe dream'.
The same pipe dream that had Argentina play SR...
The obvious difference being Argentina didn't have a thriving club competition awash with cash.
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
no, the argument is mainly
you already cut a team, for very good reasons. Why bring it back?
Because it's funded by a guy bringing some spare cash, who is probably worth like 10% of NZ's annual GDP.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@antipodean yeah that went well for them... i can see why teams would be lining up to follow suit.
Made last year's final.
If your argument is 'you have to cut a team because otherwise we'll get the Brave Blossoms' i think im done here.
How much easier you must find it to have the argument you wish to have, rather than actually dealing with what the other said.
If SR TT was to have a Japanese side, the precondition would be to not have a SunWolves Mk II scenario, but genuine JRFU support.
