'Super Rugby' 2021
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
(i also highly doubt NZ will end up with 4 semi finalists).
Probs three, but definitely two home semis.
Also this seems like a lot of angst for a one year competition.
I am not so sure this is a one yer comp. This is designed for the future going forward from Aritipu, not just a Covid stop gap.
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@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble I'd say money is everything. At the moment there's no way a TT comp would draw in as much cash.
yeah, this is a consideration, though probably not as big a one as SA fans would like to have us believe
The conference system really should have worked. It gave everyone what they wanted. Derbies. Home content. A reason to follow the team deep in to the season.
What fucked it was the fact that the Aussie and South African teams fell off a cliff, and so despite playing each other multiple times, the NZ teams were still at the top of the table. And then the "inequities" set in, which built resentment.
While in Aus, the resentment was that they fucking hate losing, and turned off as their teams were so uncompetitive. I assume in SA they hated it because they still thought it was rigged. Also too many games at shit times.
Japan was a good idea done poorly. Argentina was a nice gesture that added too many fucking miles.
You can't make a competition that covers so many miles. It just does not work. This requires some seriously creative thinking. Or market forces finally take over, and we become Brazil in soccer (if we're lucky).
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@shark I think we would at least have the Brumbies in the final four, who were coming second before lockdown.
But, regardless, i really don't see the issue for you. If you have four finalists isn't that great? you get two home semis and derbies to boot.
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What fucked it was the fact that the Aussie and South African teams fell off a cliff, and so despite playing each other multiple times, the NZ teams were still at the top of the table. And then the "inequities" set in, which built resentment.
I think this is only one of many reasons why it declined here in Australia. Not all teams were bad - the Tahs, for example, have had their best decade ever and from 2013-2018 were genuinely good to watch.
Where the conference system was supposed to simplify, it did not achieve that aim. SA had two conferences while Aus and NZ had one each. We then threw Japan in our conference for good measure.
But an underrated aspect of the decline is the lack of games in regular timeslots. Too often you'd look at the draw for the weekend and there wouldn't be a game in Australia on Saturday night. The Rebels would be in SA, the Tahs on a bye, and there was a derby on Friday night. Or you'd watch the Tahs at home and they'd spruik the next home game, which was five weeks away.
One of the best features of SuperAU/NZ at the moment is that I don't need to look at the TV guide any more. I know here there will be a game on Friday night, and one on Saturday night, and both will be pretty watchable. I'll get to watch every Tahs game live. It's been bloody great.
But simply saying the Australian/SA teams were shit and therefore the comp died is not true IMO. It's just one of a whole heap of reasons why Super died.
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@barbarian it was definitely a big factor though. Post 2015 SA and Aus teams were garbage coated garbage stuffed with garbage.
Half (or more) of our talent was in Europe. The NZ teams were never as affected because the ABs still pull in big cash and most of their better players were protected from poaching. Most NZ players only left when it became apparent they weren't going to become tenured All Blacks.
Our best players left as teens to NRL or AFL - or early in their career once they'd scored a few caps.
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@barbarian said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
But simply saying the Australian/SA teams were shit and therefore the comp died is not true IMO. It's just one of a whole heap of reasons why Super died.
no fucking shit Barb, do you want me to list every fucking reason?
But denying the fact the Aussie teams were shit (except for one at a time) was a reason a heap turned off is blinkered. All my mates up here who were Reds fans turned it off because they were sick of sucking.
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@mariner4life i agree. Problem is, cutting a team won't actually fix this (as it didn't with the Force). The only way Aus will ever be able to compete on the same level as NZ is with a huge injection of cash that allows us to recoup our best players and secure our future talent.
Any talk of cutting to greatness is nonsense.
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@Kiwiwomble I think some might - but it wouldnt be sufficient to boost the quality of the eastcoast team enough to boos the quality across the board to be equal to NZ. Not even close.
We saw what happened with the Force and Rebels. Force got cut and all of their better players and coach went to the Rebels to no particularly great effect.
Trying that again on the off chance it works this time seems like lunacy.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life i agree. Problem is, cutting a team won't actually fix this (as it didn't with the Force). The only way Aus will ever be able to compete on the same level as NZ is with a huge injection of cash that allows us to recoup our best players and secure our future talent.
Any talk of cutting to greatness is nonsense.
i get your point, i really do.
But the same arguments were made about expansion. More spots meant greater development, and better player retention. That never materialised. And then look a some of the off-casts that made up the Force rosters over the years. From numerous countries.
I'm not too sure about your point about AB players being better paid either. Pretty sure a Wallaby contract is worth fuck loads. I have no idea why those good young players kept leaving. Especially those locks.
There were some spectacularly bad contracts thrown around by RA though.
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@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
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@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life I think if you secure one of 10 odd RA contracts you are well paid but then it drops off dramatically.
Coleman is currently earning 900k in England. 900k for a player who shouldnt have really been wearing a test jersey the last two years.
You can't compete with that. We just do what we can to keep a semi competitive Wallabies limping along.
mate i think you are grossly over-evaluating what an AB can make in NZ. Certainly what a non-AB can make. I honestly don't know why so many of them stay given the money on offer. Japan looks like a great place to play piss easy rugby for truck loads of money.
The economic realities should have crushed us years ago, and it's a credit to the NZRU that they haven't.
Yeah Ozzie Super rugby players are paid higher than NZ
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent. And you already had way more talent prior to that.
The reality is, until we can figure out how to keep our talent we'll only occasionally be on a competitive level with you guys. Cutting a team or no.
We've lost shitloads of players. We are lucky that we keep producing more to replace them, and that's where Australia need to focus.
Neither country can compete with European cash, so it whatever system needs to handle that.
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@Kirwan this is what i was going to say, im getting sick of seeing "Overseas All Blacks XV" on social media
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lets also not overlook, in this crying of poverty, that even if the supposed deal for a 16 year old is a 3rd of what's being reported, it's a million dollar deal for a 16 year old.
- years. old.
That's criminal financial mismanagement, and i would leave as well if i was told to take a pay cut and then read that in the paper.
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@mariner4life said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
All my mates up here who were Reds fans turned it off because they were sick of sucking.
I well recall going to Reds games when they were dreadful and there'd be ~6,000 at Suncorp for a game against a NZ side. Half of them supporting the visitors.
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@Derpus said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mariner4life well i definitely dont have any answers to that. But i think it's pretty obvious you havent suffered from a talent flight to the same extent.
You might want to look at the 2015 RWC squad. Then there's all the fringe SR players who go OS either for more money or better prospects. The idea that player flight only affects Australia, or it's some outlier is mistaken.
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@mariner4life Yeah - it seems pretty dumb to me
