'Super Rugby' 2021
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@kiwimurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer Clear and concise comments. Good to see.
Yep, that's good to see. Also good to see that they haven't changed the back out of the hands directive part.
Should be able to have that try as part of the try of the season awards then
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@kirwan yeah, it will also look real bad if we play against this boring/neanderthal rugby and loose, thats the test
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@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@kirwan yeah, it will also look real bad if we play against this boring/neanderthal rugby and loose, thats the test
It's not even accurate, the ABs attack with kicks all the time these days. Could argue that's boring too, the stereotypes aren't correct anymore
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For those living in North America.
Fans in the USA and Canada will be able to get their Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa fix from this weekend with news that all games will be broadcast live into North America on ESPN.com.ar/rugby. It shapes to be an action-packed weekend for fans in the USA and Canada with the Hurricanes taking on the Chiefs in Wellington on Saturday night (NZT) before the Blues face the Crusaders in a blockbuster top of the table clash at Eden Park on Sunday afternoon (NZT). Visit ESPN.Com/rugby for more details and to get specific match links closer to the game time. This weekend’s schedule is: Saturday 20 March, 7.05pm NZT: Hurricanes v Chiefs Sunday 21 March, 3.35pm NZT: Blues v Crusaders NOTE: Super Rugby Australia games are also broadcast live on ESPN.com.ar/rugby
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Lee does make a good point about the potential problems of being able to use third party payments. As I've said, the SR salary cap serves no purpose.
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@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Lee does make a good point about the potential problems of being able to use third party payments. As I've said, the SR salary cap serves no purpose.
It would be easily levelled, with a salary cap (from rugby) and a third party cap (money from elsewhere), for each team and individual.
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@machpants It would be far more easily fixed with good player recruitement, development and selection. If you have the right players and allow them to become stars, they'll get the third party agreements and will want to stay.
This made me laugh and angry at the same time:
“We need to look at ourselves and how can we improve our organisation and develop players from within Wellington, Manawatu, Hawke’s Bay. If you’ve got guys in those regions who grow up wanting to be Hurricanes then you’ve got a reasonable chance of holding onto them. Some you can’t, depending on the time. “Folau Fakatava, we didn’t have a place for him when he was looking to come into Super Rugby. He’s gone down to the Highlanders and he could be an All Black in the next year or so. You can’t win them all but you’ve got to try and keep the best. Folau is one we would have loved to keep but didn’t have a spot for him.”
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@stargazer Fuck off Lee, the halfbacks in your squad in 2019 were TJ, Christie and Judd from the Naki who was given his first full contract. You also managed to sign Billy "I sure as hell haven't lived up to the hype and don't even look like being as good as my bro" Proctor on a 3 year contract.
Quite frankly he should have been signed out of school like Proctor.
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@nepia It's worse. They signed Billy Proctor on a 5-year contract, not 3.
The Hurricanes talent identification already goes pear-shaped (or should I say "Wellington-shaped"?) in the lower age grades. The Canes need a complete change of coaching & HP staff and management. As they've just re-appointed Holland and Gibbes, let's start with Lee, Castle and Larsen.
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Here is a fucking concept Hurricanes management. Create an environment where players actively want to come to and stay - that way you won't need to sign 17 year old's on 5 year contracts on the off-chance that they might turn out to be good when not playing against other school kids.
Maybe start by not having your favorite players who start no matter how badly they played the previous week (or all season in fact).
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@stockcar86 adding to that. Don't sign washed wingers who were good 6 years ago and failed to fire in the Mitre 10 Cup.
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the problem is, the pickings are pretty slim. In all honesty there is not the talent just floating around waiting to be selected. Pro rugby is an environment that takes time to adjust to. The other 3 sides not called the Crusaders or the Blues are years off. You need to develop your own players. Which means the mechanisms need to be created.
Based on the results on offer, and our discussions in the Crusaders thread, your academy is where you need to be spending your money.
But she's a one-way street for a while yet.
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@stockcar86 said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Maybe start by not having your favorite players who start no matter how badly they played the previous week (or all season in fact).
As somone who did a bit of selecting and coaching of teams, can I say this is one of the less intelligent things to say. I got accused of picking favourite etc, (and same when I on rugby boards re coaches etc), and I always said well yes I probably did pick my favourites as most coaches should. And you know why? Almost every coach I know will have as his favourite the players who will carry out the job he wants and hopefully make him look good!
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@dan54 Well the Hurricanes coaches selections are not making them look good. Either the chosen players are not carrying out the job wanted by the coaches or they are not capable of doing it. If the are carrying out the job they have been asked to do then Lord help us, even then we will probably need a higher power than that (Sir Pinetree must surely be sitting at the Top Table) to correct this current mess we are being served up week in and week out. If the latter then they only have themselves to point the finger at as they are responsible for contracting the vast majority of their playing staff..
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@bovidae said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
For those living in North America.
Fans in the USA and Canada will be able to get their Sky Super Rugby Aotearoa fix from this weekend with news that all games will be broadcast live into North America on ESPN.com.ar/rugby. It shapes to be an action-packed weekend for fans in the USA and Canada with the Hurricanes taking on the Chiefs in Wellington on Saturday night (NZT) before the Blues face the Crusaders in a blockbuster top of the table clash at Eden Park on Sunday afternoon (NZT). Visit ESPN.Com/rugby for more details and to get specific match links closer to the game time. This weekend’s schedule is: Saturday 20 March, 7.05pm NZT: Hurricanes v Chiefs Sunday 21 March, 3.35pm NZT: Blues v Crusaders NOTE: Super Rugby Australia games are also broadcast live on ESPN.com.ar/rugby
With a VPN, you can still watch the SRA games for free on the "ESPN Fans" YouTube Channel.
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I would’ve liked to see the Development teams the likes of the Hunters, Bravehearts etc play a super rugby style competition that runs parallel to Super rugby and be the curtain raiser would be great to give the fringe super rugby players game time....ideally also would’ve like the franchises U20s play before the the development team again for the experience, league did it before they canned the 20s used to be the 20s the development team and the main game, ok won’t bring more people into the ground but in the long run can only benefit the franchises.
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After the 10 games in rounds 1-5 of SRA there have been more away wins (6) than home wins (4).
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SRTT (I guess, Super Rugby Trans Ta$man) has ditched the super wekkend in one city, so some teams will get 3 home, others 2. SANZAAR encouraging teams to talk about revenue sharing. Who gets the home game not decided, good idea make them negotiate before they know who has the home game
From Paywalled NZH
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@machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Who gets the home game not decided, good idea make them negotiate before they know who has the home game
Spot on, great call! Agree the distribution so it's fair to both parties, then do the draw
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The host city for the Super weekend was never confirmed was it? And obviously never will be now.
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All 4 games this weekend were 3 point margins or less, good for the comp.
Meanwhile the saffa teams will have to wait till next season to join the NH comp due to covid restrictions.
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@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
All 4 games this weekend were 3 point margins or less, good for the comp.
Meanwhile the saffa teams will have to wait till next season to join the NH comp due to covid restrictions.
Or maybe not at all
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@machpants ... and are we surprised? Again - what's in it for the Pro14 ... vast travel expansion, and seasons that don't align. It only makes sense if you are desperate for the money the South Africans have
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@nzzp i think the timeszones made it attractive too, could have been quite the rugby comp
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@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp i think the timeszones made it attractive too, could have been quite the rugby comp
Timezones and (possibly) money. Maaaybe Pro 14 are keen, but neither seems particularly attractive to the 6N.
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@nzzp yeah given one of the great things (pre-covid) about the NH Club comps was travelling fans, this would have hindered that massively.
I think it was always SA talking tough that we needed them more than them us when they threatened to leave, and now...they could have a strong domestic comp, but it wont generate the same money for them that even Super rugby did will it
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@taniwharugby said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp yeah given one of the great things (pre-covid) about the NH Club comps was travelling fans, this would have hindered that massively.
I think it was always SA talking tough that we needed them more than them us when they threatened to leave, and now...they could have a strong domestic comp, but it wont generate the same money for them that even Super rugby did will it
Or playing different stlyes of teams
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The trans-hemispheric Pro14 was always a terrible idea, IMO. Was doomed to fail. Both sides have dodged a bullet if it never even gets off the ground.
I'm a bit envious of that South African position to be honest.
Can make a their own pro domestic comp. They can't compete on money, so let it settle to it's own level. Can pick players from overseas if they want. Will have an even stronger Springboks team with restrictions removed.
Best of both worlds. A domestic comp they will/may care about if they base it on Currie Cup, and a strong test team.
Test players will only travel from Europe to Saffaland once for an international window (and from then on to away games in the SH), instead of zooming all around the Southern Hemisphere all season. Their players will be drawn from top teams in about 4 different leagues with different styles and ideas. I'd predict a decade of dominance for them coming up, if it weren't for the unknown of racial/political meddling.
Meanwhile. NZ will be picking from (the normal) depleted player depth due to exodus, plus have invited some of their own racial/political meddling into their own camp with Moana Pacific. Admittedly will have less tired players du to less cross-Southern_hemisphere SR travel (compared to pre-covid / pre-SR disintegration).
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@rapido I totally disagree. For the moment the pro players in the prem have to fly back and forth in the down weeks of international rugby, it is not ideal at all. EDIT: it works better in for RWC, but outside that, it is a nightmare for teams. Planing, bonding, training - no time. A global season will ameriolate that, admitedly. But basically they’ll end up like the islands. they count as Euro for there, so why would young up and coming Boks fuck around on a pittance in a country on its knees when they can play in EU or Japan for a wodge. And 5 years is not too long with the right incentives for a teen/20s player to wait for international honours.
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There's lots of unknowns. Cant predict with much certainty.
But can definitely predict with certainty they'd be nothing like the islands. They are still a large country, 4th biggest 'rugby economy', who play in an annual international competition that makes good money. The Island's problem is it isnt worth any player's time to travel back in june/July.
Free of attemoting to prop up 6 teams at pay rates to match Euro and Japan levels, they could afford huge match fees. And (apart from Japan based players) the travel is quite short. No way woul players return to Europe in bye weeks if the match fees are good enough. Agents and the market will sort that out.
But. All speculation. I wouldn't know what sort of domestic comp they would set up and how much money that may suck out of the cash generating pot of test rugby.
Either way. Its 200% more attractive than the abomination of whatever the Pro14 was trying to be.
Is it as good as 1996 to 2006 Sanzar? No.
But better than Pro18 and probably better than what SR had become.
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Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
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@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
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If anyone thinks it is a problem that NZ players only get to play one style of rugby (I'm not so sure it's a problem), then you can also appoint a NH coach at each franchise as assistant-coach, like the Crusaders have done with Ronan O'Gara and Mark Jones. Or lure NZ coaches back from the NH.
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@machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
Yeah. I grew up 80s kid. My formative opinions of European based professionals and nz national teams is that it's a bit crap - is that you don't get them playing except for the very biggest occasions. I'm thinking Wynton Rufer, Kevin Iro, Dean Bell, Hugh McGahan etc.
But I dont think that would have been the South African experience if they weren't isolated. They're half a word closer.
But anyway. Things change.
NZ and Australia are close enough that the temptation to keep a form of SR going is tempting enough. It may work, it may just delay things a decade , I dont know. Surviving beyond a decade will depend on whether they get Japan in the tent with a Champions Cup.
But, South Africa never really had this temptation. Having the crazy moon shot of Pro18 removed from them by Pro14 will be a blessing for them. They can adjust to reality, no kicking the can down the road for them. It will make the Boks stronger. But can the Boks play 9 games in SH winter at full strength? No. Will the TRC continue as 6 match home and away if Saf in that boat? Maybe not.
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@rapido I agree. More so I believe rugby needs a premier league. whether that be Japan or France or England or America. NFL EPL NRL NBA all great domestic that have most of the worlds talent. Rugby just seems like its been dying a slow death the last 10 years.
NZ needed aussie to win the sports battle in Australia. They could hardly have done worse and now there no chance of a world class domestic league that can make genuine money here. Instead we have this all Blacks funded socialist model where the only way rugby makes money is through one team and the domestic comps are worse because of it.
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@muddyriver
Disagree with this logic. Firstly, looking at the leagues you mentioned NFL: one country plays the sport. EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success. Makes the most money and has most viewers but doesn't have the best players in the world. NRL: RL is only really a dominant sport in Aus (half the country anyway). NBA: Probably the only example that works.A premier rugby comp based outside of this timezone would make everyone into NRL fans and kill rugby union in this country. Because ultimately we want to watch live sport at a reasonable time and occasionally in person.
I'd advocate for a Rugby global champions league but more for the monetary aspect than anything else.
SA 2019 was mostly domestic players with a few overseas players sprinkled in. Otherwise all RWC winners have been playing domestically (correct me if I'm wrong). Remains to be seen if a completely disjointed team can win or even be dominant. Certainly the English, French and Irish players all play in their own country.
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@mofitzy_ like football and basketball are dead in this country?
There would still be a high level comp here it just wouldn't have most all blacks. Just like the NBL or football.
I think NRL has most of the young viewership already hence my point. But I think that is for a multitude of reasons and failures from the nzru and nz sportsmedia. But mostly aus rugby.
There are stats pointing how old the average rigby viewer is and they are pretty dire from memory.
Every kid or 20 something I know is talking NBA.