'Super Rugby' 2021
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@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp i think the timeszones made it attractive too, could have been quite the rugby comp
Timezones and (possibly) money. Maaaybe Pro 14 are keen, but neither seems particularly attractive to the 6N.
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@nzzp yeah given one of the great things (pre-covid) about the NH Club comps was travelling fans, this would have hindered that massively.
I think it was always SA talking tough that we needed them more than them us when they threatened to leave, and now...they could have a strong domestic comp, but it wont generate the same money for them that even Super rugby did will it
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@taniwharugby said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@nzzp yeah given one of the great things (pre-covid) about the NH Club comps was travelling fans, this would have hindered that massively.
I think it was always SA talking tough that we needed them more than them us when they threatened to leave, and now...they could have a strong domestic comp, but it wont generate the same money for them that even Super rugby did will it
Or playing different stlyes of teams
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The trans-hemispheric Pro14 was always a terrible idea, IMO. Was doomed to fail. Both sides have dodged a bullet if it never even gets off the ground.
I'm a bit envious of that South African position to be honest.
Can make a their own pro domestic comp. They can't compete on money, so let it settle to it's own level. Can pick players from overseas if they want. Will have an even stronger Springboks team with restrictions removed.
Best of both worlds. A domestic comp they will/may care about if they base it on Currie Cup, and a strong test team.
Test players will only travel from Europe to Saffaland once for an international window (and from then on to away games in the SH), instead of zooming all around the Southern Hemisphere all season. Their players will be drawn from top teams in about 4 different leagues with different styles and ideas. I'd predict a decade of dominance for them coming up, if it weren't for the unknown of racial/political meddling.
Meanwhile. NZ will be picking from (the normal) depleted player depth due to exodus, plus have invited some of their own racial/political meddling into their own camp with Moana Pacific. Admittedly will have less tired players du to less cross-Southern_hemisphere SR travel (compared to pre-covid / pre-SR disintegration).
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@rapido I totally disagree. For the moment the pro players in the prem have to fly back and forth in the down weeks of international rugby, it is not ideal at all. EDIT: it works better in for RWC, but outside that, it is a nightmare for teams. Planing, bonding, training - no time. A global season will ameriolate that, admitedly. But basically they’ll end up like the islands. they count as Euro for there, so why would young up and coming Boks fuck around on a pittance in a country on its knees when they can play in EU or Japan for a wodge. And 5 years is not too long with the right incentives for a teen/20s player to wait for international honours.
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There's lots of unknowns. Cant predict with much certainty.
But can definitely predict with certainty they'd be nothing like the islands. They are still a large country, 4th biggest 'rugby economy', who play in an annual international competition that makes good money. The Island's problem is it isnt worth any player's time to travel back in june/July.
Free of attemoting to prop up 6 teams at pay rates to match Euro and Japan levels, they could afford huge match fees. And (apart from Japan based players) the travel is quite short. No way woul players return to Europe in bye weeks if the match fees are good enough. Agents and the market will sort that out.
But. All speculation. I wouldn't know what sort of domestic comp they would set up and how much money that may suck out of the cash generating pot of test rugby.
Either way. Its 200% more attractive than the abomination of whatever the Pro14 was trying to be.
Is it as good as 1996 to 2006 Sanzar? No.
But better than Pro18 and probably better than what SR had become.
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Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
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@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
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If anyone thinks it is a problem that NZ players only get to play one style of rugby (I'm not so sure it's a problem), then you can also appoint a NH coach at each franchise as assistant-coach, like the Crusaders have done with Ronan O'Gara and Mark Jones. Or lure NZ coaches back from the NH.
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@machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
Yeah. I grew up 80s kid. My formative opinions of European based professionals and nz national teams is that it's a bit crap - is that you don't get them playing except for the very biggest occasions. I'm thinking Wynton Rufer, Kevin Iro, Dean Bell, Hugh McGahan etc.
But I dont think that would have been the South African experience if they weren't isolated. They're half a word closer.
But anyway. Things change.
NZ and Australia are close enough that the temptation to keep a form of SR going is tempting enough. It may work, it may just delay things a decade , I dont know. Surviving beyond a decade will depend on whether they get Japan in the tent with a Champions Cup.
But, South Africa never really had this temptation. Having the crazy moon shot of Pro18 removed from them by Pro14 will be a blessing for them. They can adjust to reality, no kicking the can down the road for them. It will make the Boks stronger. But can the Boks play 9 games in SH winter at full strength? No. Will the TRC continue as 6 match home and away if Saf in that boat? Maybe not.
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@rapido I agree. More so I believe rugby needs a premier league. whether that be Japan or France or England or America. NFL EPL NRL NBA all great domestic that have most of the worlds talent. Rugby just seems like its been dying a slow death the last 10 years.
NZ needed aussie to win the sports battle in Australia. They could hardly have done worse and now there no chance of a world class domestic league that can make genuine money here. Instead we have this all Blacks funded socialist model where the only way rugby makes money is through one team and the domestic comps are worse because of it.
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@muddyriver
Disagree with this logic. Firstly, looking at the leagues you mentioned NFL: one country plays the sport. EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success. Makes the most money and has most viewers but doesn't have the best players in the world. NRL: RL is only really a dominant sport in Aus (half the country anyway). NBA: Probably the only example that works.A premier rugby comp based outside of this timezone would make everyone into NRL fans and kill rugby union in this country. Because ultimately we want to watch live sport at a reasonable time and occasionally in person.
I'd advocate for a Rugby global champions league but more for the monetary aspect than anything else.
SA 2019 was mostly domestic players with a few overseas players sprinkled in. Otherwise all RWC winners have been playing domestically (correct me if I'm wrong). Remains to be seen if a completely disjointed team can win or even be dominant. Certainly the English, French and Irish players all play in their own country.
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@mofitzy_ like football and basketball are dead in this country?
There would still be a high level comp here it just wouldn't have most all blacks. Just like the NBL or football.
I think NRL has most of the young viewership already hence my point. But I think that is for a multitude of reasons and failures from the nzru and nz sportsmedia. But mostly aus rugby.
There are stats pointing how old the average rigby viewer is and they are pretty dire from memory.
Every kid or 20 something I know is talking NBA.
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@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@muddyriver
EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success.why would you use the success of teams in a different competition as the gauge for how successful the EPL is?
i think we need to come up with something that is a successful business model, that might mean not having the best players. having a successful business at least means you have the changes of having the best players, concentrating purely on the best players is what we've been doing up and till now and has how we've got into a non sustainable situation
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@sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What's happening with these cross- Ta$man games? How many? When? Where?
The draw was released a while back so should stay the same. Just some haggling over who gets the extra home game now that the super round has been canned.
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The only change is that the so-called Super Round will no longer be played in one location and that the venues of round 3 still have to be announced.
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@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
2021 Super Rugby Trans-Tasman Schedule Finalised
