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The whole commentary on Covid here has become politicised and is almost universally dominated by the Fern's very own brand of anti-vaxers.
The argument seems to be that the pandemic was all a sham and that the measures taken were unnecessary. That those that dies were going to anyway and that the economic hardships suffered far outweigh the dangers of Covid.
Then we get assertions that have been repeatedly discredited (like more kids have dies from the vaccine than Covid) presented as truth.
The facts are the excess mortality rate in the US amounts to nearly 1.2 million, the UK 160K
People said we wouldn't know how serious the pandemic was until we were out the other side. Well now we do.
Stories like @Steve are truly awful and the emotion is obviously very raw, but the relatives of the victims of the pandemic should not have their feelings dismissed callously either.
There is an argument that says we should have just let the virus run its course and prevented all the suffering from isolation and the economic losses, but the facts suggest otherwise. Deaths were on a steep upward curve until the vaccination programs began. Yeah there are plenty of anecdotes about I caught Covid and it was only a sniffle. Hullo - that's because of the vaccination programme not despite it.
All the lost businesses are also tragic. Walking through Auckland's CBD is very disheartening, but there were plenty of warning signs before 2020 that the world was heading for a shit tonne of economic pain. The pandemic has exacerbated this - as has Ukraine and a host of other measures, but those countries that locked down do seem to be suffering less - for now anyway.
It's all fucking awful and it definitely isn't a binary situation - something everyone needs to remember.
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@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The whole commentary on Covid here has become politicised and is almost universally dominated by the Fern's very own brand of anti-vaxers.
The argument seems to be that the pandemic was all a sham and that the measures taken were unnecessary.
Not sure about that, certainly not quite my position.
My view all along has been that any and all of the measures taken initially could be justified given the potential severity of the disease and the sheer amount of unknowns we were dealing with. But I have also long held the view that we reacted far too slowly in taking considered risks in coming out the other side, actions that would have massively alleviated the economic and mental health costs of this thing. I've also seen stats for Oz that suggest the excess deaths are much more related to the delayed and cancelled surgeries thanks to lockdowns and staff shortages - and yes I know covid deaths are lower cos vaccines, just interesting to see it laid out like that.
Particularly in NZ and Oz, where we got the disease late, had the advantage of a spread out population and a compliant citizen base, and got to watch the whole thing play out for months in other countries first. We could and should have done so much better.
In the present time, I further take the view that any and all restrictions are fucking daft and probably a violation of our rights. Anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had ample time and opportunity to do so - 4 jabs if you're so inclined. An unvaccinated person should be of zero concern to you, just as you used to view someone unvaccinated for the flu. Isolation, travel bans, vax certificates, mask mandates, simply shouldn't exist anywhere anymore.
For the record, my family has all had 2 - we wouldn't have vaxxed the kids, but for the travel restrictions. My oldest 2 kids both had covid prior to any vaccinations, and had the mildest of symptoms (luckier than many, I know). After them having the rona, then watching it mutate into more transmissible but less-severe variants, there is no way we have vaccinated them. But that's neither here nor there now.
Lastly, while I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I do think that absolving the large pharma groups of any opportunistic behaviour is slightly naive. I do believe they provided misleading information, and the politicians and media absolutely played on the transmission benefits of the vaccines in their attempts to get as many people vaccinated as possible. And given the severity of this thing on a global scale, I do think that there should be some very in-depth study done of their actions and statements, with serious consequences if any proof of wrongdoing is found.
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@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The whole commentary on Covid here has become politicised and is almost universally dominated by the Fern's very own brand of anti-vaxers.
The argument seems to be that the pandemic was all a sham and that the measures taken were unnecessary.
Not sure about that, certainly not quite my position.
My view all along has been that any and all of the measures taken initially could be justified given the potential severity of the disease and the sheer amount of unknowns we were dealing with. But I have also long held the view that we reacted far too slowly in taking considered risks in coming out the other side, actions that would have massively alleviated the economic and mental health costs of this thing. I've also seen stats for Oz that suggest the excess deaths are much more related to the delayed and cancelled surgeries thanks to lockdowns and staff shortages - and yes I know covid deaths are lower cos vaccines, just interesting to see it laid out like that.
Particularly in NZ and Oz, where we got the disease late, had the advantage of a spread out population and a compliant citizen base, and got to watch the whole thing play out for months in other countries first. We could and should have done so much better.
In the present time, I further take the view that any and all restrictions are fucking daft and probably a violation of our rights. Anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had ample time and opportunity to do so - 4 jabs if you're so inclined. An unvaccinated person should be of zero concern to you, just as you used to view someone unvaccinated for the flu. Isolation, travel bans, vax certificates, mask mandates, simply shouldn't exist anywhere anymore.
For the record, my family has all had 2 - we wouldn't have vaxxed the kids, but for the travel restrictions. My oldest 2 kids both had covid prior to any vaccinations, and had the mildest of symptoms (luckier than many, I know). After them having the rona, then watching it mutate into more transmissible but less-severe variants, there is no way we have vaccinated them. But that's neither here nor there now.
Lastly, while I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I do think that absolving the large pharma groups of any opportunistic behaviour is slightly naive. I do believe they provided misleading information, and the politicians and media absolutely played on the transmission benefits of the vaccines in their attempts to get as many people vaccinated as possible. And given the severity of this thing on a global scale, I do think that there should be some very in-depth study done of their actions and statements, with serious consequences if any proof of wrongdoing is found.
Unfortunately in the UK we were practically forced to have the vaccine to live a ‘normal’ life but in doing so we absolved the government and big pharma of any responsibility
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@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The whole commentary on Covid here has become politicised and is almost universally dominated by the Fern's very own brand of anti-vaxers.
The argument seems to be that the pandemic was all a sham and that the measures taken were unnecessary.
Not sure about that, certainly not quite my position.
My view all along has been that any and all of the measures taken initially could be justified given the potential severity of the disease and the sheer amount of unknowns we were dealing with. But I have also long held the view that we reacted far too slowly in taking considered risks in coming out the other side, actions that would have massively alleviated the economic and mental health costs of this thing. I've also seen stats for Oz that suggest the excess deaths are much more related to the delayed and cancelled surgeries thanks to lockdowns and staff shortages - and yes I know covid deaths are lower cos vaccines, just interesting to see it laid out like that.
Particularly in NZ and Oz, where we got the disease late, had the advantage of a spread out population and a compliant citizen base, and got to watch the whole thing play out for months in other countries first. We could and should have done so much better.
In the present time, I further take the view that any and all restrictions are fucking daft and probably a violation of our rights. Anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had ample time and opportunity to do so - 4 jabs if you're so inclined. An unvaccinated person should be of zero concern to you, just as you used to view someone unvaccinated for the flu. Isolation, travel bans, vax certificates, mask mandates, simply shouldn't exist anywhere anymore.
For the record, my family has all had 2 - we wouldn't have vaxxed the kids, but for the travel restrictions. My oldest 2 kids both had covid prior to any vaccinations, and had the mildest of symptoms (luckier than many, I know). After them having the rona, then watching it mutate into more transmissible but less-severe variants, there is no way we have vaccinated them. But that's neither here nor there now.
Lastly, while I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I do think that absolving the large pharma groups of any opportunistic behaviour is slightly naive. I do believe they provided misleading information, and the politicians and media absolutely played on the transmission benefits of the vaccines in their attempts to get as many people vaccinated as possible. And given the severity of this thing on a global scale, I do think that there should be some very in-depth study done of their actions and statements, with serious consequences if any proof of wrongdoing is found.
Unfortunately in the UK we were practically forced to have the vaccine to live a ‘normal’ life but in doing so we absolved the government and big pharma of any responsibility
Not really true mate. The only compulsion to have the vaccine was for international travel and that was more down to the requirements of the countries being visited.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@voodoo said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@dogmeat said in Coronavirus - Overall:
The whole commentary on Covid here has become politicised and is almost universally dominated by the Fern's very own brand of anti-vaxers.
The argument seems to be that the pandemic was all a sham and that the measures taken were unnecessary.
Not sure about that, certainly not quite my position.
My view all along has been that any and all of the measures taken initially could be justified given the potential severity of the disease and the sheer amount of unknowns we were dealing with. But I have also long held the view that we reacted far too slowly in taking considered risks in coming out the other side, actions that would have massively alleviated the economic and mental health costs of this thing. I've also seen stats for Oz that suggest the excess deaths are much more related to the delayed and cancelled surgeries thanks to lockdowns and staff shortages - and yes I know covid deaths are lower cos vaccines, just interesting to see it laid out like that.
Particularly in NZ and Oz, where we got the disease late, had the advantage of a spread out population and a compliant citizen base, and got to watch the whole thing play out for months in other countries first. We could and should have done so much better.
In the present time, I further take the view that any and all restrictions are fucking daft and probably a violation of our rights. Anyone who wants to get vaccinated has had ample time and opportunity to do so - 4 jabs if you're so inclined. An unvaccinated person should be of zero concern to you, just as you used to view someone unvaccinated for the flu. Isolation, travel bans, vax certificates, mask mandates, simply shouldn't exist anywhere anymore.
For the record, my family has all had 2 - we wouldn't have vaxxed the kids, but for the travel restrictions. My oldest 2 kids both had covid prior to any vaccinations, and had the mildest of symptoms (luckier than many, I know). After them having the rona, then watching it mutate into more transmissible but less-severe variants, there is no way we have vaccinated them. But that's neither here nor there now.
Lastly, while I'm certainly not a conspiracy theorist, I do think that absolving the large pharma groups of any opportunistic behaviour is slightly naive. I do believe they provided misleading information, and the politicians and media absolutely played on the transmission benefits of the vaccines in their attempts to get as many people vaccinated as possible. And given the severity of this thing on a global scale, I do think that there should be some very in-depth study done of their actions and statements, with serious consequences if any proof of wrongdoing is found.
Unfortunately in the UK we were practically forced to have the vaccine to live a ‘normal’ life but in doing so we absolved the government and big pharma of any responsibility
Not really true mate. The only compulsion to have the vaccine was for international travel and that was more down to the requirements of the countries being visited.
Not in Wales
You needed a vaccine pass for practically everything except health care and supermarkets
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Well if that’s not a good enough reason to move across the Severn I don’t know what is. You’d be welcome here too, just that for your probationary period (5 years) there would be 2 days a week community service of free ski tuition. DM me when you move, I could do with some tips.
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@Catogrande said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Well if that’s not a good enough reason to move across the Severn I don’t know what is. You’d be welcome here too, just that for your probationary period (5 years) there would be 2 days a week community service of free ski tuition. DM me when you move, I could do with some tips.
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FFS China
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@MiketheSnow well if the Chinese government is this stupid, not that I wish this on the poor Chinese people at the end of the stick, and it hurts their economy this is good for us. I guess it is too hard for them to admit they are wrong and relinquish some control.
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@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow well if the Chinese government is this stupid, not that I wish this on the poor Chinese people at the end of the stick, and it hurts their economy this is good for us. I guess it is too hard for them to admit they are wrong and relinquish some control.
no it's not good for us, my business relies on a product made entirely in that fucking city (actually, most people do, that's what that city exists for)
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@mariner4life I get this and we are seeing the impact down presently with inflation because their product is not available. Would be nice to get less dependent on the Chinese though. Perhaps wishful thinking.
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@broughie said in Coronavirus - Overall:
Would be nice to get less dependent on the Chinese though
speak to Boards and Shareholders that sold us down that river a couple of decades ago.
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@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
FFS China
Now's the time to invade.
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@mariner4life said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@antipodean said in Coronavirus - Overall:
@MiketheSnow said in Coronavirus - Overall:
FFS China
Now's the time to invade.
Unless you are Asian of course.
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Ch-eye-na
Coronavirus - Overall