Foe Cross Fit Fans
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[quote name='ACT Crusader' timestamp='1359782801' post='341080']<br />
Thanks for posting that TR, gave me a good laugh some of them. I reckon I counted about 6 or 7 that are purely in the "show off" category[b] (mainly the clapping p-ups, the chest clap p-ups are stupid)[/b] but the rest are good killer exercise that can get those fast twitch fibres going.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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Sounds like someone can't do too many of them..... -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359773479' post='341043']<br />
I don't like exercises involving kipping. Always looks looks like poor technique or cheating to me.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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Do you thrust your hips when you clean? Same thing, it's used to generate power so you can do more reps. <br />
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Some of the xFit workouts have 100 pull-ups in them, or 30 muscle ups. Good luck getting that done without kipping and keeping up any sort of intensity. And kipping is a skill, it's actually pretty hard to do and it's not even remotely cheating. <br />
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Google a butterfly kipping pull-up and tell me that's it bad technique. -
[quote name='NTA' timestamp='1359677139' post='340823']<br />
Ex-gymnast? Lot of coordination and great power to weight ratio.<br />
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Wish I could rope climb <img src='http://www.daimenhutchison.com/rugby/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':(' /><br />
[/quote]<br />
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Lots of ex-gymnasts in xFit. They excel at the skill work and are tough, strong athletes (at least with the body weight exercises). Most have the same issues this girl has though, they are small and aren't good weight lifters. Her weights above wouldn't see her do well at competition level, and she looked like she started to struggle at higher reps. <br />
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The current female Games champion is an exception, Annie Thorisdottir, she's an immaculate weightlifter and an ex-gymnast. . -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359802079' post='341160']<br />
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<br />
Do you thrust your hips when you clean? Same thing, it's used to generate power so you can do more reps. <br />
<br />
Some of the xFit workouts have 100 pull-ups in them, or 30 muscle ups. Good luck getting that done without kipping and keeping up any sort of intensity. And kipping is a skill, it's actually pretty hard to do and it's not even remotely cheating. <br />
<br />
Google a butterfly kipping pull-up and tell me that's it bad technique.<br />
[/quote]<br />
I know you're right into crossfit but I don't see how kipping can be described as a functional movement. IMO it's just a means to be able to perform a greater amount of reps.<br />
<br />
Of course there is no way you could do 100 strict pull-ups and 30 muscle ups in a workout for time. That's exactly my point.<br />
<br />
The triple extension of a clean or lifting something heavy overhead replicates a common functional movement. What functional movement does kipping replicate?<br />
<br />
I know it's extremelt difficult and acrobatic but when do you use it in everyday life?<br />
<br />
<br /> -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359802079' post='341160']<br />
<br />
<br />
Do you thrust your hips when you clean? Same thing, it's used to generate power so you can do more reps. <br />
<br />
Some of the xFit workouts have 100 pull-ups in them, or 30 muscle ups. Good luck getting that done without kipping and keeping up any sort of intensity. And kipping is a skill, it's actually pretty hard to do and it's not even remotely cheating. <br />
<br />
Google a butterfly kipping pull-up and tell me that's it bad technique.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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Totally agree that there is no way Average Joe could bust out 100 strict pull-ups and 30 muscle ups in a workout for time. That was kind of my point.<br />
<br />
The triple extension of a clean or an overhead lift replicates a common functional movement. <br />
<br />
I know Kipping is extremelt difficult and acrobatic but do you use it often in your everyday life? Is kippings sole purpose to enable a Crossfiter to perform artificial reps? -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359807108' post='341173']<br />
I know you're right into crossfit but I don't see how kipping can be described as a functional movement. IMO it's just a means to be able to perform a greater amount of reps.<br />
<br />
Of course there is no way you could do 100 strict pull-ups and 30 muscle ups in a workout for time. That's exactly my point.<br />
<br />
The triple extension of a clean or lifting something heavy overhead replicates a common functional movement. What functional movement does kipping replicate?<br />
<br />
I know it's extremelt difficult and acrobatic but when do you use it in everyday life?<br />
[/quote]<br />
<br />
This is my take on it. Kipping is a more efficient way to "get work done", yes it's easier (it's supposed to be). It's functional aspect can be best be described by asking how you would climb over a wall? Would you stop and strictly pull yourself over it to maintain perfect form, or would you use momentum to make it easier?<br />
<br />
And yes I'd rarely have to climb over a wall, but I'd also rarely have to lift 100kg over my head. CrossFit is trying to make you ready to be able to various movements in real life if you need to. Me? I'm doing it keep in shape, but it's nice to know that I was hanging off a roof I could get myself back up (another functional movement analogy).<br />
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By the way, there are several Crossfit workouts that utilise strict pullups (and the other exercises that often use kipping), even weighted pullups. It depends on what the workout is designed to achieve, some days it's all about strength.<br />
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Also, Crossfit didn't invent kipping, it comes from gymnastics - the ultimate sport in moving the body efficiently. -
It's funny all the pros and cons of Crossfit. There are things in it I reckon I'd be pretty good at, other things less so. For some reason I've always been good at clap push ups, I remember some huge young fella collecting for breast cancer who could bench 200kg ( so he claimed and looking at him I believed him ) getting through 20 or so which I matched after giving him 20$ despite not benching anywhere near that ( although I was considerably lighter too to be fair )<br />
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Lots of schools of thought I guess, when I'm pissing round up country and lifting heavy stones to chuck around in a vain attempt to impress my sons I don't focus on form, more getting the fucken heavy things over my head anyway I can. When Johnnie Beattie bumped off the English lock en route to a glorious storming run in the wee small hours he focussed on momentum and power, not strict movement. -
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359849626' post='341337']<br />
<br />
<br />
This is my take on it. Kipping is a more efficient way to "get work done", yes it's easier (it's supposed to be). It's functional aspect can be best be described by asking how you would climb over a wall? Would you stop and strictly pull yourself over it to maintain perfect form, or would you use momentum to make it easier?<br />
<br />
And yes I'd rarely have to climb over a wall, but I'd also rarely have to lift 100kg over my head. CrossFit is trying to make you ready to be able to various movements in real life if you need to. Me? I'm doing it keep in shape, but it's nice to know that I was hanging off a roof I could get myself back up (another functional movement analogy).<br />
<br />
By the way, there are several Crossfit workouts that utilise strict pullups (and the other exercises that often use kipping), even weighted pullups. It depends on what the workout is designed to achieve, some days it's all about strength.<br />
<br />
Also, Crossfit didn't invent kipping, it comes from gymnastics - the ultimate sport in moving the body efficiently.<br />
[/quote]<br />
Good take mate, you've swayed my stance somewhat!<br />
<br />
Ive just finished a robust conversation with Kiwi Linc over coffee about why the pair of us (broken arse former rugby players) continue to train. <br />
<br />
Basically we agreeed on two motivations:<br />
<br />- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
<br /> - So in an emergency or crisis situation we can do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of our families. I don't want to be the father who couldn't lift the log off our car or the one who couldn't run to the farm house in enough time to call the ambulance! That's all the motivation we need.<br />
<br />
Neither of us are bothered in any way shape or form about cosmetic appearance anymore.<br />
<br />
So on that basis if kipping enables someone to maximise their training then I guess I'm for it! Still think it looks weird though.
- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
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[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359856031' post='341352']<br />
It should be called a 'chin to bar' because it's not a pull up<br />
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There's no point discussing kipping with a crossfitter. It's like trying to tell a scientologist that Tom Cruise can't levitate.<br />
[/quote]<br />
Which one is a chin and which is a pull-up? I'm continually confused. -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359855853' post='341351']<br />
Good take mate, you've swayed my stance somewhat!<br />
<br />
Ive just finished a robust conversation with Kiwi Linc over coffee about why the pair of us (broken arse former rugby players) continue to train.<br />
<br />
Basically we agreeed on two motivations:<br />
<br />- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
<br /> - So in an emergency or crisis situation we can do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of our families. I don't want to be the father who couldn't lift the log off our car or the one who couldn't run to the farm house in enough time to call the ambulance! That's all the motivation we need.<br />
<br />
Neither of us are bothered in any way shape or form about cosmetic appearance anymore.<br />
<br />
So on that basis if kipping enables someone to maximise their training then I guess I'm for it! Still think it looks weird though.<br />
[/quote]<br />
<br />
Agree totally with that but add 3. to impress people who don't train, 4. keep the big gut skinny arm syndrome at bay which I bordered on whilst living in London ( so cosmetic to some extent )
- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
-
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359856031' post='341352']<br />
It should be called a 'chin to bar' because it's not a pull up<br />
<br />
There's no point discussing kipping with a crossfitter. It's like trying to tell a scientologist that Tom Cruise can't levitate.<br />
[/quote]<br />
<br />
"Chin over bar" would be a better label (you cheeky shit).<br />
<br />
We actually do that sort of description for things like Clean and Jerk, sometimes called Ground to Overhead, because they don't care what technique you use as long as you getting the weight from the floor to a pressed out position above your head (safely of course). Up until this week for the Grace workout I was cleaning and push pressing because I had trouble dipping again quickly for the jerk after the clean.<br />
<br />
It's also worth pointing out that if a WOD has pullups written in it (and are not specified in a certain style, eg strict), you can choose how to do them for yourself; strict, kipping, chipups, mixed grip, whatever. So you can tailor the workout to achieve whatever you are after. -
[quote name='Red Beard' timestamp='1359855853' post='341351']<br />
Good take mate, you've swayed my stance somewhat!<br />
<br />
Ive just finished a robust conversation with Kiwi Linc over coffee about why the pair of us (broken arse former rugby players) continue to train.<br />
<br />
Basically we agreeed on two motivations:<br />
<br />- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
<br /> - So in an emergency or crisis situation we can do whatever it takes to ensure the safety of our families. I don't want to be the father who couldn't lift the log off our car or the one who couldn't run to the farm house in enough time to call the ambulance! That's all the motivation we need.<br />
<br />
Neither of us are bothered in any way shape or form about cosmetic appearance anymore.<br />
<br />
So on that basis if kipping enables someone to maximise their training then I guess I'm for it! Still think it looks weird though.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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Yep, for me it was not being out of breath putting the damn rubbish out. And secondly, being fit enough to work, manage the house and play with the kids without being exhausted.<br />
<br />
The rest is like discussing the benefits of League vs Rugby, or Catholicism vs Protestantism. It's semantics, and from the outside people can't tell the difference anyway. It's just fun lifting heavy things at the end of the day, wish I started in my 20s.
- So neither of us get so fat that we have to be cut out of our houses live on Jerry Springer oneday.<br />
-
[quote name='Kirwan' timestamp='1359859727' post='341365']<br />
"Chin over bar" would be a better label (you cheeky shit)[/quote]<br />
My main objection is the label. You have people who can in reality do 3 pullups claiming that they can do 20<br />
<br />
The purpose of a real pull up is to exercise the lats. The lats are responsible for bringing the elbow closer to the body (pullups, rows etc)<br />
The reason you 'kip' is to do most of the retraction of the elbows with momentum and without engaging the lats.<br />
<br />
So while the start and end points are the same it's an entirely different exercise. It is getting chin to the bar by any means possible. -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359860065' post='341369']<br />
My main objection is the label. You have people who can in reality do 3 pullups claiming that they can do 20<br />
<br />
The purpose of a real pull up is to exercise the lats. The lats are responsible for bringing the elbow closer to the body (pullups, rows etc)<br />
The reason you 'kip' is to do most of the retraction of the elbows with momentum and without engaging the lats.<br />
<br />
So while the start and end points are the same it's an entirely different exercise. It is getting chin to the bar by any means possible.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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No, it's literally to pull yourself up over the bar, so there's nothing wrong with calling it that. For bodybuilding you want to isolate the lats, in crossfit you want to perform the movement efficiently, using as little energy as possible. They are achieving different goals.<br />
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It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to compare a bodybuilding movement (or strength training, whatever) to a gymnastic movement. Apples and Oranges. -
[quote name='Duluth' timestamp='1359860658' post='341371']<br />
The choice of name is what causes the comparison.<br />
[/quote]<br />
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It's called a kipping pull-up. And if the main site has it listed as simply a pull-up, that's because you can choose your method. <br />
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It's only confusing for people that think there is only one way to do a pull-up.