Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020
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@Rapido said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@hydro11 said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@Rapido said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
Here we go:
The last decade, in nz, bowling 2nd change or lower.
But we hardly ever pick 4 genuine quicks, so not really a fair comparison.
They're just the facts, ma'am.
Albeit limited by the criteria that it only records their bowling position of their first spell, but it;s the best we have.You can sort them, filter them, however you like.
Excluding the freak that is Wagner.
Specialist seam bowlers (Tuffey, Bracewell, Southee, CdG, Henry, Arnel, Boult, Franklin, Gillespie) have averaged 69.00 when bowling second change or lower (compared to their collective career average of 37.18).If include the batting allrounder/competent seamers (Anderson, Neesham, Mitchell) in the non-Wagner list. It improves to averaging 51.88
If add Wagner in, it single-handedly becomes excellent: Averaving 26.28
In comparison. Specialist spin bowlers have averaged 46.41. (Specialists plus Kane average 45.08)
If we can find a second Wagner: Then yes, that would be better than a spinner.
A decade of historical stats suggests finding a second Wagner is pretty hard, and a failed second Wagner is actually 50% worse than a spinner. (69 v 46).
Facts.
It's a really low sample size though. Take Tuffey's two games - one was a test against Bangladesh where we actually played two spinners and another was a test against Aussie where our collective bowling average was over 100. Or Bracewell/Southee versus South Africa where they actually swapped around the bowling order between innings but both were still in the attack early.
A much smarter analysis would be to look at a bowler's average in overs 40-80 and see what they are. I don't know how to do that.
One simple thing I can do is look at the preceding decade where NZ quicks other than Wagner averaged 35 in New Zealand conditions bowling 2nd change or lower. So if we didn't have Wagner, it's not unlikely that we would pick someone else there and they would offer more than a spinner.
The debate should be around the specific player you want to play instead of your spinner. For instance, is Jamieson likely to do well there? Is he going to get bounce out of the pitch? Making the call based on a stat like that wouldn't make any sense to me.
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@hydro11 said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
The debate should be around the specific player you want to play instead of your spinner. For instance, is Jamieson likely to do well there? Is he going to get bounce out of the pitch? Making the call based on a stat like that wouldn't make any sense to me.
I'm all good with an attack that looks like Boult-Southee, followed by Kyle (bounce) and Wags (Wagmagic). If you do that, you can play CdG if you need to, or just pick 6 good batsmen. All those bowlers do a bit different things - two left, two right, two swing, one bounce, one Wagner.
Batters then look like Nicholls, Latham, SteadyTheShip, Blundell, Taylor, choose one of CdG or Mitchell, Watling and then 4 bowlers.
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@nzzp said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@hydro11 said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
The debate should be around the specific player you want to play instead of your spinner. For instance, is Jamieson likely to do well there? Is he going to get bounce out of the pitch? Making the call based on a stat like that wouldn't make any sense to me.
I'm all good with an attack that looks like Boult-Southee, followed by Kyle (bounce) and Wags (Wagmagic). If you do that, you can play CdG if you need to, or just pick 6 good batsmen. All those bowlers do a bit different things - two left, two right, two swing, one bounce, one Wagner.
Batters then look like Nicholls, Latham, SteadyTheShip, Blundell, Taylor, choose one of CdG or Mitchell, Watling and then 4 bowlers.
Jamieson has the potential to give us something we've not had for some time, a tall guy who is reasonably fast and gets a lot of bounce off the track. That makes him a possible strike bowler along with the others, as opposed to a simple holding option. And Colin has a sneaky knack of getting wickets so it's a strong team
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@dogmeat said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
to quote @booboo - we luvz Wags
Loves
Absolutely loves Wags
Loves
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@booboo said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@dogmeat said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
to quote @booboo - we luvz Wags
Loves
Absolutely loves Wags
Loves
Liked and quoted for maximum effect
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@canefan That's the team I'd pick, as well. But, Rossco still bats ahead of Henry in my team.
Selection of a 12th man is potentially important in these days of HIAs - I assume anyone who gets knocked out has to be replaced by the 12th man?
Someone like Neesh or even Santner, who bats and bowls would seem an ideal choice - though I'm hazy about the rules around this. Anyway, neither is in the squad so I guess Mitch Jr. is the choice.
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@Chris-B said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@canefan That's the team I'd pick, as well. But, Rossco still bats ahead of Henry in my team.
Selection of a 12th man is potentially important in these days of HIAs - I assume anyone who gets knocked out has to be replaced by the 12th man?
Someone like Neesh or even Santner, who bats and bowls would seem an ideal choice - though I'm hazy about the rules around this. Anyway, neither is in the squad so I guess Mitch Jr. is the choice.
I think the HIA rules are like for like. So you can't replace a bowler with a batsman. I assume that means that you can pick anyone in your squad, although I believe it is up to the match ref if it's an appropriate change. I'm not sure how a allrounder would be treated.
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@Cyclops Yeah - especially if you didn't have a spare allrounder in your squad.
I noted in the Ford Trophy final, Hamish Rutherford had to be replaced by Otago's 12th man (according to the rules) - but, that makes sense because the away team likely only travels with 12 players. Test cricket rules are doubtless a bit different.
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Yeah, no idea about the domestic rules. It wouldn't surprise me if they only had one or two subs available though.
I had a quick look at the test playing conditions and it seems that the icc doesn't care about the 12th man anymore. Teams nominate 6 sub fielders and any of them can sub on (under the normal no batting or bowling conditions). A team can apply to the match ref in exceptional circumstances for other people to take the field as a sub.
There's no restriction on the concussion sub - it looks like they don't even have to have been a nominated sub. However, the match ref can impose conditions on the sub. So if we had a batsman (say Latham) concussion subbed out and the only suitable replacement was Neesham (perhaps because of a tour), the match ref would be able to say 'fine, but he can't bowl'.
It's up to the match ref's discretion though, so it would be interesting to see what would happen if we wanted to sub Boult for Neesham or Boult for Santner. Also would be interesting if we had a Kane for Neesh swap. Would that be an over limit?
I can see some controversial uses of this coming in future years, particularly around swapping of bowlers. Hopefully the match refs take a sensible approach taking a reasonably strict approach on 'like for like' for home teams and being a little more relaxed for touring teams.
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@Cyclops said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
It's up to the match ref's discretion though, so it would be interesting to see what would happen if we wanted to sub Boult for Neesham or Boult for Santner. Also would be interesting if we had a Kane for Neesh swap. Would that be an over limit?
Let's hope Marais isn't the match ref when we need a sub - just saying...
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@Chris-B said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@Cyclops said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
It's up to the match ref's discretion though, so it would be interesting to see what would happen if we wanted to sub Boult for Neesham or Boult for Santner. Also would be interesting if we had a Kane for Neesh swap. Would that be an over limit?
Let's hope Marais isn't
the match ref when we need a sub - just saying...in the countryFixed
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@Godder said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@Siam said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
Wags out. Baby coming.
But don't worry Henry called up
Damn it!
Good thing about the match referees these days is that most of them are former international players.
Match refs must be former test players under ICC rules. Pretty sweet gig really, wander out for the toss and then get paid to watch 5 days of test cricket. I kind of get it, but it also feels like a bit of jobs for the boys.
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@Chris-B said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
@Siam said in Indian Cricket Tour of NZ 2020:
Wags out. Baby coming.
But don't worry Henry called up
Don't know why Mrs. Wags can't do this on her own - the delivery is bound to be short, or very short!
Simply outstanding. Well done .
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