RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4)
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@Machpants said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
The spear tackle was a red IMO
Not by the protocols the refs use. If he landed on his head/neck yes it would have been a red. It was a clear yellow.
I would argue the protocols are a bit shit but thats a different conversation. I don't like adding an incentive for the tackled player to not protect himself
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@antipodean said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Kruse said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@NTA said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
Thanks Japan. You made my tournament.
Fxxkin' loved it.
And loved the reaction of the players... it wasn't “shit, we're so happy to be here”... it was “shit, we were this close to being in the semi”.
Not even a thought of not being a serious contender.
You beautiful magnificent little bastards... good play.I hope SANZAAAAAAR and World Rugby follow this up, it would be a desperate shame to have a nominally tier two host with their economic power top their pool and unite a nation so well to fuck it all up.
Sunwolves?
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@Duluth said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Machpants said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
The spear tackle was a red IMO
Not by the protocols the refs use. If he landed on his head/neck
"Head and/or upper body" was the clarification. Split second instinct to stick out his arm stopped it being red.
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@Duluth Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one. Best I can find are these...
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/gmg-2015-hs.pdf (though this is for high school rugby).
Spear tackle or tip tackle. Lifting a player from the ground, turning the
body horizontal or beyond, and either driving the player into the ground or
dropping the player without regard for the player’s safety. PK and Red Card. -
@Chris-B said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Duluth Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one. Best I can find are these...
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/gmg-2015-hs.pdf (though this is for high school rugby).
Spear tackle or tip tackle. Lifting a player from the ground, turning the
body horizontal or beyond, and either driving the player into the ground or
dropping the player without regard for the player’s safety. PK and Red Card.Don't use those as they may be out of date - Law 9 has it per the link I posted.
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Someone mentioned they have changed the card threshold for the playoffs. Had this been in the pool stages the Beast tackle would be a red and Matsushima was a yellow and potentially a red. Would have been very interesting the result had those been called.
Having said that I'm glad the threshold appears to have changed. Red cards should be for Frenchy thuggery.
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@Chris-B said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one.
Can't find one
They work through a flow diagram like the do with high tackles (link)
Over the last few years refs have checked for the initial contact with the ground. Head/neck = red and shoulder etc yellow.
They use that same deliberate structure and clearly state it. -
@NTA said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Chris-B said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Duluth Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one. Best I can find are these...
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/gmg-2015-hs.pdf (though this is for high school rugby).
Spear tackle or tip tackle. Lifting a player from the ground, turning the
body horizontal or beyond, and either driving the player into the ground or
dropping the player without regard for the player’s safety. PK and Red Card.Don't use those as they may be out of date - Law 9 has it per the link I posted.
That gives the law, but not the protocol for deciding yellow or red - at least not that I can see.
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@Chris-B said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Duluth Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one. Best I can find are these...
https://assets.usarugby.org/docs/refereeing/gmg-2015-hs.pdf (though this is for high school rugby).
Spear tackle or tip tackle. Lifting a player from the ground, turning the
body horizontal or beyond, and either driving the player into the ground or
dropping the player without regard for the player’s safety. PK and Red Card.I think they apply the same logic as a tackle in the air when deciding sanction. The law quoted is only for dropping or spearing. Simply lifting and tipping has an outcome dependent on how the player lands. back or shoulder = YC, head or neck = RC
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South Africa's halftime reset was very impressive in its pragmatism and professionalism.
In the first half they had the maul and the tackle going well, but as soon as they got the ball they were sucked in to trying really hard to score points, as if they themselves believed they needed to win by 30.
Rassie obviously pulled them in to line at half time, and the 2nd half was a lesson in controlled brutality. Ignore the ball, give it to them, bash the piss out of them, and use the maul and scrum to not only grind them in to the turf, but generate penalties. And it was done to perfection. Japan had zero answer to it.
That was the very definition of being overpowered. It wasn't exactly a spectacle, but the old forward in me loved it.
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@mariner4life nice that you watched it with a fellow forward - hope the curtains were closed! Boom tish
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@Duluth said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@NTA said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
Don't use those as they may be out of date - Law 9 has it per the link I posted.
Thats just the language for if it's a penalty kick. It doesn't define the red card decision making framework
There is no framework that I can find - probably because it was pretty obvious with a tip tackle.
High tackle has been given more attention as part of WR's concussion program.
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@Duluth said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
@Chris-B said in RWC: Japan v South Africa (QF 4):
Is there a link to the protocols on tip tackles? I can't find one.
Can't find one
They work through a flow diagram like the do with high tackles (link)
Over the last few years refs have checked for the initial contact with the ground. Head/neck = red and shoulder etc yellow.
They use that same deliberate structure and clearly state it.Thanks - a pity they don't have a protocol video like the one for high tackles.
I'm thinking that quite recently I saw someone get red carded for lifting tackle where the ref said the tackler had driven the ball carrier into the ground.
I'm thinking The Beast might have a nervous 24 hours - pretty close to cite-able IMO.
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Re: the spear tackle. The landing was very similar to this one, with Ben Smith getting a yellow, not red. It's the example used in the WR Lawbook (Law 9.18).
Edit: Owens basically got talked into making it a yellow. A very soft one IMO.
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@Stargazer Ben Smith's one doesn't look as bad to me, probably because he's only got one leg.
Here's Jerome Garces in action....video starts with the tip tackle.
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@Stargazer Landing not too much IMO - Earls lifted him higher. Beast has gone on with the tackle - driven the Japanese guy. I reckon Barnes went for the quick yellow to avoid having to discuss red.
Laws of the Game | World Rugby Laws
Spear tackle - Wikipedia
