Southland Rugby
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I made a table of finishing positions for some of the teams
The teams are the old yo-yo teams of the 1990's, plus Manawatu and Otago
The start date is when the NPC format changed (2011)
The teams were listed from 1-14 after the round robin. Yes I know that's not fully correct as there are two divisions.. its just a rough guide
Team 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Best Finish Average Finish Taranaki 3 4 6 1 4 1 1 7 1 3.375 BOP 3 6 7 14 11 11 9 12 3 9.125 HB 9 7 10 9 8 7 13 10 7 9.125 Otago 10 9 9 13 10 8 10 9 8 9.75 Manawatu 8 13 12 8 7 11 12 13 7 10.5 Southland 7 11 11 11 13 14 14 14 7 11.875 Northland 12 12 13 10 14 13 11 11 10 12 The first really obvious point is that Taranaki is not like the others. Why? They are a former yo-yo team, not a SR base and a population similar to other lesser teams.
Northland and Otago are the sides that have not been in the 1st division
Otago deserve more criticism than they get
Southland's decline seems steady. Prior to 2011 they had some very good seasons too
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@Duluth said in Southland Rugby:
The first really obvious point is that Taranaki is not like the others. Why?
When Naki were part of the Canes they always had a high number of Super players as they were the 'preferred' 2nd province (obviously a wee bit of bitterness in there but this is fact) and I think their association with the Chiefs has ensured they've continued to have a high number.
@Duluth said in Southland Rugby:
The start date is when the NPC format changed (2011)
Is that correct? I think the actual change was the AirNZ Cup in 2006. Before that was the old 1st/2nd Div. Obviously I remeber this as it was when the Magpies were quite good (regular quarter and semi finalists) - pre the idiot coach from Canterbury days.
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@Nepia said in Southland Rugby:
@Duluth said in Southland Rugby:
The start date is when the NPC format changed (2011)
Is that correct? I think the actual change was the AirNZ Cup in 2006. Before that was the old 1st/2nd Div.
The current format started in 2011
In 2010 it was 1 big division
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How did Taranaki finance a new stadium, and the recruitment of all those players? A really good year for dairy?
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@Duluth said in Southland Rugby:
I picked that date because the competition format is consistent. It shows how the teams have gone under this format
Let me guess, HB had some good years before the cut off?
I highlighted that in my first response to you.
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A significant factor in Southland's current predicament has been their financial situation.
In 2011 it was that bad they had to take a $500,000 loan from NZRU and they couldn't hold their 125th jubilee that year either due to their financial situation.
The final repayment of that $500,000 loan was only made last year.
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@Duluth as a long time supporter I am long resigned to the fact that Otago is mud when it comes to ITM and will be for the long term. Ever since they almost went bankrupt it’s been made clear they will not spend money on this team. The main reason we don’t publicly get criticism is during this decline the Highlanders have been winning, if this changes it will expose the team to more critics.
Southland unfortunately is not associated to Highlanders (colours, don’t play in Forsyth Barr etc)
If it wasn’t for OBHS and University still
Pulling in a few we would be in same waka -
@98blueandgold said in Southland Rugby:
The main reason we don’t publicly get criticism is during this decline the Highlanders have been winning, if this changes it will expose the team to more critics.
Yes, that's a really good point. A couple of lean years for the Highlanders would change the media/public pressure on Otago.
At the moment it seems like there is no chatter about Otago getting stuck in the 2nd division? I occasionally look at the ODT and it seems like it's just accepted this is where they belong now?
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@Duluth said in Southland Rugby:
@98blueandgold said in Southland Rugby:
The main reason we don’t publicly get criticism is during this decline the Highlanders have been winning, if this changes it will expose the team to more critics.
Yes, that's a really good point. A couple of lean years for the Highlanders would change the media/public pressure on Otago.
At the moment it seems like there is no chatter about Otago getting stuck in the 2nd division? I occasionally look at the ODT and it seems like it's just accepted this is where they belong now?
Does it really matter what div you are in when you play both divisions in terms of media exposure/criticism?
I would prefer the 'hurt' of going down to the championship where you only played championship teams.
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as good a chance as they will get this year to break that streak when the face Manawatu.
Not a nice feeling being where they are.
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@taniwharugby said in Southland Rugby:
as good a chance as they will get this year to break that streak when the face Manawatu.
Not a nice feeling being where they are.
I really hope they do. They are my second team if there is such a thing
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I think depth in the school grades is part of the issue. Know a few guys from around there as the misses is unfortunately from there.
Looking at their school results seems like SBHS is the only team. I know they have always been head and shoulders above but look at the likes of James Hargest I know a lot of guys who went there over the years who are half decent footy players. Now the school i think had 2 or 3 teams total and their 1st 15 is in 2nd 15 grade.
They have never really supplied Stags that I know of but more the flow on to Southland Secondary Schools sides, development of colts grades and even just building good juniors who might go off to uni but then come back and make prems more competitive over the years.
On all accounts my mates said the Prems comp is shit house. Hard to get guys from club rugby to NPC level when its so crap. We have all seen over the years teams that have been so-so but had enough quality to overperform....the following year they get a bunch of super rugby players who then get to train full time and come back and strengthen the province.
Southland is the opposite they are stuck in the loop of very few Super rugby players who come back into a team full of guys who have been playing a season of shithouse club footy.
Don't know what the solution is. Maybe get the check book out to NZSS kids and get them to SIT for free and build from there.
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@Magpie_in_aus maybe the solution is to redistribute the teams along populations lines? Should Southland just become a heartland team?
2010 ITM Cup - Wikipedia
