Chiefs 2020
-
Injuries up front don't help, but some of the selections are pretty strange.
We are only just seeing TTT back, Alaimalo has been in the woods, Nankivell is ???, Stevenson ???, no sight of Naholo or Sullivan while ENS gets continued starts.
-
@Bovidae said in Chiefs 2020:
Having observed a Chiefs training, it is the assistant coaches who take on a more hands-on role. These are the same assistant coaches that were there before Gatland joined. I certainly don't think the coaches have been asking for the high-risk plays inside their 22 m. In fact, Gatland has commented on being more pragmatic and kicking for territory when required.
One of the biggest problems to me is that some key players are not playing anywhere near as well as last year, Weber being the obvious example.
that's the way in pretty much every pro sports team.
There are a lot of guys who haven't got back up after the break, Weber being one (and in modern rugby if your halfback is off, you are fucked). My boy ALB as well. Definitely a couple in the pack. And from what i have seen, DMac is trying waaaay too hard, instead of picking his moments like he should.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial not aimed at you, more of a general comment, but...
I have never understood this sort of thinking. To me it reeks of excuse making.
When shit goes wrong, players are always handed an excuse that they are "distracted" by some shit around someone leaving next year. Are our professional players so weak mentally that they cannot focus on this season because they are distracted by the next? Oh, the coach isn't here next year, no wonder they don't listen to him this year. What sort of shit is that?
It's always used in the NRL when a player signs for another club. It was used yesterday for St George because Tyson Frizell is playing somewhere else next year, and how that would affect the players' focus. Incidentally it was used about 4 hours before St George smashed Manly by 30 points. Guess they must have been able to put that distraction to one side for a day aye?
The Chiefs aren't battling because Gatland is doing the Lions next year, the Chiefs are battling because for the coaches seem unable to impose any sort of coherent plan on the playing group.
At the start of the year, before the world imploded, the Chiefs had beaten the Crusaders and the Blues and were being spoken of as competition favourites (not that i agreed, the Brumbies dismantled them) How was the distraction there? Fuck knows what happened over the break though.
I think of it like a business organisation. You know how at some companies there is real clarity in structure and leadership that gets the best out of employees but at others there is lip service to being 'one' but in reality there are opposing forces at play? That's what we saw at the Blues for years. It took an intervention and complete rebuild of structure to get the buy in that players now talk about as the key to their success.
It's these small things at the margins that either hold or crack under pressure."the Chiefs are battling because for the coaches seem unable to impose any sort of coherent plan on the playing group."
Why is that? The coaches can communicate and they have the respect of the players. A messy organisation creates messy results and all the good intentions in the world won't stop shit happening otherwise.
Look at the poster child of the Crusaders. It always comes back to the overall management to provide a structure and culture that players believe in.
Can Gatland stand up in front of these players and say 'I'm 100% behind you' when their minds are saying 'except when you are thinking about your other team'. No wonder they don't always follow his direction.
I'm not saying it is the sole cause by any means, but it doesn't help to not have a firm foundation in place. -
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
Can Gatland stand up in front of these players and say 'I'm 100% behind you' when their minds are saying 'except when you are thinking about your other team'. No wonder they don't always follow his direction.
i agree with everything else except this bit.
this is childish nonsense. If this is true, then the players are children.
And again you are ignoring the evidence from the aborted Super Rugby season. The same coaches had the same players playing pretty well.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
The same coaches had the same players playing pretty well.
The turnaround in from is kind of weird, although maybe the other teams were just building into the season? It's like the reverse of Cooper, his team was bumbling around in the early rounds and then clicked to make the finals.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
Can Gatland stand up in front of these players and say 'I'm 100% behind you' when their minds are saying 'except when you are thinking about your other team'. No wonder they don't always follow his direction.
i agree with everything else except this bit.
this is childish nonsense. If this is true, then the players are children.
And again you are ignoring the evidence from the aborted Super Rugby season. The same coaches had the same players playing pretty well.
Disagree.
Did they really have them playing well?
I recall games where they played like crap but lucked it home for a result on the back of some risk taking plays sticking.
Don't get me wrong I enjoy a team that plays 'nothing ventured, nothing gained' but that needs to be married to not throwing away hard fought opportunities for risk.I'm trying to think of a better analogy for you. Maybe if you were dating a hot chick that professed to be really into you but you knew she had drinks with another guy planned for next month you would still enjoy what you were getting but also know that if she demanded your loyalty you'd think twice about it.
It isn't childish for people to have their thought processes affected by the situations around them at all. It is quite normal.
And please don't use the 'they are paid to do this stuff' argument. Plenty of businesses pay staff more that these sports players to do jobs and don't get the best out of them because there are some flaws in the business setup. -
@gt12 said in Chiefs 2020:
Injuries up front don't help, but some of the selections are pretty strange.
We are only just seeing TTT back, Alaimalo has been in the woods, Nankivell is ???, Stevenson ???, no sight of Naholo or Sullivan while ENS gets continued starts.
Yes. I was never expecting to see Naholo as he is a rookie and Sullivan is playing club rugby each week so is fit. Wainui seems to be the constant on the wing. Alaimalo looked very good in the Canes game, but I think he had an illness/injury which prevented him playing earlier. He needs to start this Sunday. No idea why Nankivell hasn't had an opportunity yet, and they moved Tupaea into 2nd 5 in the last game when Nankivell could have just slotted into 2nd 5.
Cruden has played the full 80 mins in the last 2 games, so Trask has stayed on the bench. I'd like to see some changes in the backline this round, but there isn't much that can be done in the forwards with all of the injuries.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
There are a lot of guys who haven't got back up after the break, Weber being one (and in modern rugby if your halfback is off, you are fucked). My boy ALB as well. Definitely a couple in the pack. And from what i have seen, DMac is trying waaaay too hard, instead of picking his moments like he should.
That's the thing. It is the experienced players (and I include Cruden) who haven't been leading by example.
-
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
Can Gatland stand up in front of these players and say 'I'm 100% behind you' when their minds are saying 'except when you are thinking about your other team'. No wonder they don't always follow his direction.
this is childish nonsense. If this is true, then the players are children.
I've seen people a lot older than rugby players act like children at work. And I absolutely agree that pro sports teams are bound to be like any other business - sometimes it doesn't take much for the wheels to come loose. But, it's very hard to know what's going on from the outside and this is just a mini-slump that could be fixed in a fortnight - or it might not be.
-
@Chris-B said in Chiefs 2020:
@mariner4life said in Chiefs 2020:
@Crucial said in Chiefs 2020:
Can Gatland stand up in front of these players and say 'I'm 100% behind you' when their minds are saying 'except when you are thinking about your other team'. No wonder they don't always follow his direction.
this is childish nonsense. If this is true, then the players are children.
I've seen people a lot older than rugby players act like children at work. And I absolutely agree that pro sports teams are bound to be like any other business - sometimes it doesn't take much for the wheels to come loose. But, it's very hard to know what's going on from the outside and this is just a mini-slump that could be fixed in a fortnight - or it might not be.
Here's hoping.
I'm just looking for underlying reasons for some of the dumbness and think that the current/future coaching situation cant be helping much. -
I don't think the Chiefs were as great pre-covid as some seem to suggest. They weren't just convincingly beaten by the Brumboys; they also lost at home to the Canes. They only beat the Crusaders due to a better second half, but weren't great in the first. Their two biggest wins were against the Sunwolves and the Waratahs ...
Just putting it out here: is Gatland really such a good coach?
-
@Stargazer said in Chiefs 2020:
I don't think the Chiefs were as great pre-covid as some seem to suggest. They weren't just convincingly beaten by the Brumboys; they also lost at home to the Canes. They only beat the Crusaders due to a better second half, but weren't great in the first. Their two biggest wins were against the Sunwolves and the Waratahs ...
Just putting it out here: is Gatland really such a good coach?
I don't think he has shown much value yet (and won't get a possible payoff of his ways for quite some time). I was against him being appointed head coach while he had other commitments for that reason.
-
He has the full support of the board
-
This is becoming more common now, Glen Osborne joining the police a few years ago.
-
-
