New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2
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@nzzp said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
Chris picked it - John Bracewell at 10 and Collinge at 11 complete the team
Could you psot the averages please? Keen to see what our stars look like:)
Sorry I didn't note the averages when I set the list - from memory Latham isn't far behind the openers, that last test didn't help him. Taylor not far ahead of Crowe, Ryder was over 50, and both Bracewell and Collinge were over 20 (or just under 20!). You'll have to Statsguru it yourself ....
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@Rapido said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Franklin and Wright don't get much, if any, reverence as an opening pair.
Unless by reverence you mean people being surprised to find out that it is NZ's most successful opening partnership.
Maybe it's a confirmation bias - the only people who have every mentioned them to me have spoken extremely highly of them (but then they're hardly going to mention them if they were just mediocre).
I just remember the first time I saw Franklin's average being surprised at how low it was given how much that partnership had been talked up.
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@Rapido said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Godder said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
Franklin and Wright had tremendous stats as a pair.
According to who ? were our standards really that bad that words like that get thrown around ?
According to cold hard stats. I thought you just professed to being a stats nerd earlier in the thread.
11th best in all of test history (by this criteria):
Wow, fuck me days, ok I stand corrected, can't argue with that.
I cannot believe a guy who averaged 23 is 11th on the list, it's not like Wright had a Sehwag/Warner type average or strike rate to offset that the the other end either but in terms of doing the job of seeing off the new ball obviously they were the business.
I am legitimately shocked that they'e ahead of Greenidge/Haynes and Hayden/Langer.....particularly the latter two, I guess from memory often one went relatively cheaply while the other flourished ? ( 53 test hundreds between them )
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OK I have a question (obviously expecting that many votes was too much!).
And of course it the same question as last time - except now it is for ODIs - 1-11 of the players with the highest batting average in that position - minimum 20 games in that position. Presuming that for the many times that the lower didn't bat, then it was the named batting order on the team sheet.
Lower in the batting order is really tough to get - and one player appears in the team twice. Go!
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@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Rapido said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@Cyclops said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
It wasn't the two Blairs (Hartland and Pocock) was it? Not sure if they played enough games though. They were bad enough that Bryan Young was considered a reliable opener for a period though.
Pocock is a YES - Hartland is poised on 9 games though with the outstanding average of 16.83
Trevor Franklin then? I remember being shocked by his average given the reverence that he and John Wright get as an opening pair (not that it's undeserved, shows how much the game has changed, and probably also how much our standards have risen)
Franklin and Wright don't get much, if any, reverence as an opening pair.
Unless by reverence you mean people being surprised to find out that it is NZ's most successful opening partnership.
Maybe it's a confirmation bias - the only people who have every mentioned them to me have spoken extremely highly of them (but then they're hardly going to mention them if they were just mediocre).
I just remember the first time I saw Franklin's average being surprised at how low it was given how much that partnership had been talked up.
Franklin was a very limited player (at test level). He played almost no shots. He had a very good FC record for Auckland and maybe would have improved his test record over the next few years but he was one of those who retired quite early as he found Martin Crowe as captain un-enjoyable*.
For about 2 years he played at a time when John Wright was in god mode in 1990 to 1991.
John Wright, who had spent most of his career as a very stodgy opening batsman, changed his stance in 1990 and increased his scoring rate by about 50%.
Franklin playing almost no shots and surviving about 2 hours per innings, plus John Wright in later career god mode - formed a very good partnership. One of those quirks of history.
Wright in matches involving Trevor Franklin:
(*according to K-Rud's book).
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This scorecard is a fairly good example of 1990-91 version of John Wright.
In a match missing Martin Crowe. Wright takes control of a 4th innings run chase. Scoring 64% of the innings runs (and 67% of the opening partnership) on a pitch John Bracewell had just shown was starting to play up.
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@MN5 said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
I'm gonna go Shane Bond at 11 purely cos I remember a bit of hitting every now and again
No sorry - it is a bit bogus as the guy has only been dismissed once batting at 11. Could be a tricky task to guess.
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i have a question.
I just stats-gurued the test team because i wanted to look at the averages (Ryder?! fucking hell)
I get Mark Richardson averaging 45.38 over 38 matches at #1, Glen Turner averaging 43.51 over 24
Sutcliffe would be 2nd at #1 with 44.96 from 15
At #2 i have Latham averaging 52 from from 31, some dude named dowling 49 from 10, and then Turner 49 from 15.
Every other one i can match up. Was the criteria for opening just the two highest averages opening? or did you actually use their batting order?
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@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
i have a question.
I just stats-gurued the test team because i wanted to look at the averages (Ryder?! fucking hell)
I get Mark Richardson averaging 45.38 over 38 matches at #1, Glen Turner averaging 43.51 over 24
Sutcliffe would be 2nd at #1 with 44.96 from 15
At #2 i have Latham averaging 52 from from 31, some dude named dowling 49 from 10, and then Turner 49 from 15.
Every other one i can match up. Was the criteria for opening just the two highest averages opening? or did you actually use their batting order?
The first option. Average as an opener.
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@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
i have a question.
I just stats-gurued the test team because i wanted to look at the averages (Ryder?! fucking hell)
I get Mark Richardson averaging 45.38 over 38 matches at #1, Glen Turner averaging 43.51 over 24
Sutcliffe would be 2nd at #1 with 44.96 from 15
At #2 i have Latham averaging 52 from from 31, some dude named dowling 49 from 10, and then Turner 49 from 15.
Every other one i can match up. Was the criteria for opening just the two highest averages opening? or did you actually use their batting order?
Henry Nicholls incredible efforts have made me completely forget Ryder and all the what ifs of his career.
This makes me happy.
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@KiwiPie said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
@mariner4life said in New Zealand v Bangladesh Test #2:
i have a question.
I just stats-gurued the test team because i wanted to look at the averages (Ryder?! fucking hell)
I get Mark Richardson averaging 45.38 over 38 matches at #1, Glen Turner averaging 43.51 over 24
Sutcliffe would be 2nd at #1 with 44.96 from 15
At #2 i have Latham averaging 52 from from 31, some dude named dowling 49 from 10, and then Turner 49 from 15.
Every other one i can match up. Was the criteria for opening just the two highest averages opening? or did you actually use their batting order?
The first option. Average as an opener.
well, that wasn't the task set us mr kiwipie. i fucking object. we didn't just treat the middle order as the middle order did we? Batting at 1 and batting at 2 is different.
