NH Ditch Junior rep sides
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It's all about praising the effort not the outcome, that is probably the key point on dealing with kids. Hard to do tho.
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my comments to my eldest are "don't be a downhill skier!"
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as some of you know, I coach an U14 rugby team, and have done for 9 seasons (well not always U14s) with probably 8 or 9 of the boys having been in the team I coach for 5 or more seasons.
This season has been by far the toughest my team has faced, with many of this team yet to go through thier growth spurt, and as such have had some severe beatings (no one got to a hundred, but got close a couple of times) and only had 2 wins and a draw
2 made the U14 rep team this week (interestingly this is twice the number who were selected form the team that won the comp) were 2 other boys form my team who probably would have made it, but were injured
anywho, my point is, despite the beatings, despite most of the not making rep sides, none of these boys have said they wont be back next year, about half will likely be able to remain in the U14 grade if they dont grow...however, despite these boys wanting to play, with no U15 grade up here (goes to U16) approx half of my team are likely to not have a team next year, not to mention they simply wont be big enough to move to U16.
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@dogmeat said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Stargazer I heard the interview. Apparently peak physical involvement for humans is ages 11-12 after which participation rates drop off a cliff.
Main reason given by kids for calling it quits by kids: coping with the expectations of adults especially around winning and performance.
I'm all in favour of competitive sport but its a sad indictment when kids are giving up sport in droves because parents and coaches drive the fun out of it when all the kids want to do is have fun and bond with their mates.
I never had enough talent to be burdened with expectation but I have seen and heard plenty of parents who relive their "glory days" (that probably never were) vicariously through their kids
I do like the comment when GOAT was a young lad and he was told he'd probably enjoy his sport more if he was fitter. Ball is in the kid's court then.
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Northern Region Rugby Council adopts Talent Identification Recommendations
The Northern Region Rugby Council (NRRC) confirmed today it would no longer undertake representative Provincial Union based initiatives below the Under 16 age group.
Over the past 12 months the NRRC has conducted three review meetings, independently facilitated to look closely at the initiatives it manages. The meetings focused on Under 13, Under 14-18 and the NRRC purpose.
The effect of this decision is from 2020 the Roller Mills Tournament (U13 weight restricted tournament) no longer take place in its current form, along with provincial based Under 14 & Under 15 competitions.
Chairman of Northern Region Rugby Council, Neil Alton said the recommendation tabled was adopted with close to unanimous support.
“It’s clear member Provincial Unions are keen to take a greater responsibility for retaining and developing its players in these age groups by providing opportunities for more players.
“The decision is backed by research showing early selection sends a negative message to young players who still have a number of years to reach their full physical and mental development potential. Rugby is a late specialisation sport”.“The Roller Mills Tournament in particular has a proud history and we’d like to acknowledge and thank the many volunteers who have worked tirelessly to deliver the tournament. It’s our aim to give even more players and coaches a great experience, delivered in a different format, and within their own provincial union and communities.”
Alton said two of the nine member provincial unions decided not to participate in Roller Mills in 2019 and many Provincial Unions have developed improved models which have better outcomes for players than the traditional representative team option.
The NRRC meeting also reviewed all other 2019 initiatives. These programmes provided excellent player and coach development and will go ahead in 2020 with some minor improvements. The female U16 competition model will be a multi-day tournament rather than a one-day tournament. This brings it in closer alignment with the male U16 programme.
The NRRC will hold its AGM in February 2020 to ratify budgets, programmes, and dates for the upcoming season.
NRRC Background
- Membership includes provincial unions from the Blues and Chiefs franchises, including Northland, North Harbour, Auckland, Counties Manukau, Thames Valley, Waikato, Bay of Plenty, King Country, Taranaki.
- The purpose of the NRRC is to organise Provincial Union Representative Rugby initiatives for Male and Female players
- NRRC programmes include:
o 15 aside - Female U16,18 & Male Development, Under 19,18,16
o 7 aside - Female U16,18, Senior & Male Senior
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Long-standing New Zealand rugby Roller Mills youth tournament canned - RUGBY HEARTLAND
A long-standing provincial youth rugby tournament has been scrapped.
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First part of a 2 part story
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Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
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@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
Football at junior level is fucking horrendous. I am involved quite a bit in junior sport and football sucks donkey balls. It is ludicrously elitist and segregated and turns pleasant mild kids into raging ego maniacs with superiority complexes.
I think the biggest issue is that football is swamped with 'academies' that are profit driven, and they demand year round expensive training so your little Tarquin doesnt fall behind. It is a horrendous set up. The dont tell kids not to play other sports, but they are year around and make it clear that if your kid doesnt make the right choices he will never make 'it'.
I loathe junior soccer with a passion, even the club scene is ugly with stringent grading trials, kids who make it, kids who dont and the parents who are fucking nightmares full of ego.
Both my boy and girl played rugby, and I was well pleased, but they both took after me and had no real talent in the sport, so have dropped out. My girl is going to stick with tennis and try flippa ball.. which I think is water polo? Seems fun.
My boy is in rep squads for tennis and cricket, which sucks as they are both summer sports, but we think doing both is important as it gives variation, and with rep tennis he just gets to have more free coaching, as rep cricket is just fun stuff, he gets to go play in some tournament, which we view as more of a cricket holiday than anything serious. The brutal reality is that the vast majority arent going to make 'it'.I should also add that Tennis is also horrendous for kids who over train at a young age.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
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Had bad experiences with junior soccer too and pulled my kid from it.
He came from rugby and liked the idea of being the goalie, which looking back was a mistake on my part. Took a bit of abuse from his own team from anything he let in (he was actually pretty brave and diving at feet, etc).
Had to get the coach to sort the team out and point out they had to get past all you useless fucks before getting to the goalie, but it didn't really improve much.
Hockey seems better organised and friendlier in terms of parent dickheadness, he's been enjoying that.
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@Kirwan said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Had bad experiences with junior soccer too and pulled my kid from it.
He came from rugby and liked the idea of being the goalie, which looking back was a mistake on my part. Took a bit of abuse from his own team from anything he let in (he was actually pretty brave and diving at feet, etc).
Had to get the coach to sort the team out and point out they had to get past all you useless fucks before getting to the goalie, but it didn't really improve much.
Hockey seems better organised and friendlier in terms of parent dickheadness, he's been enjoying that.
Sympathise with this a lot. My memories of coaching junior football a decade or so back was of parents and coaches so focused on goals they were happy for their team to just hoof the ball forward to their fast player, over and over again. Lollies/$$ for goals scored, no coaching of goalkeeping, no recognition of good ball movement, stringing passes together, good defensive work.
And those coaches that did try to actually coach football inevitably copped aggression from Shane's mum and dad for not having a system that allows him to pad his goal-scoring average. Witnessed senior club coaches pressuring new coaches to play only their "best" players and leave the weaker kids on the sideline for a few minutes in trash time. The same people lamented the drop in player participation from junior into senior ranks and couldn't figure out what was going on.
When regulations were adjusted to try and encourage actual football (e.g. limiting the goalie to kicking off the deck and not out of hand), there were plenty of coaches happy to ignore that because "that's not how we play". And when NZ football brought in their structured junior programme, designed to integrate skills development with actual games on a Saturday morning, you'd have thought they'd just proposed death camps for children - such was the measured response from many parents.
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I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
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@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
I think soccer is copping it as clubs/parents and academies are going in exactly the opposite direction to what is required for fun participation. Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
I actually think football NZ is on board with a more positive sport. But it seems like it has a really hard road to hike with parents, some clubs and for profit academies -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@mariner4life said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
I'm not sure why soccer is copping it here, when i have seen exactly the same think in junior rugby, to the exact same extent. Parents have a lot to answer for.
I quit junior rugby in my teens because i was small, and pretty shit, and that absolutely did not fly with how rugby is done in NZ, when winning is absolutely everything, even at 13 years old. I started again at uni, when there was a place to develop your play without pressure. Turns out i could play a bit, just needed some guidance.
I am good friends with a guy involved intimately with these moves, and his explanations have definitely changed my opinion of them, and made me look at how i view my sons' sports. I think have the right idea, but it's not a bad thing to look at the messages you are sending every so often.
I think soccer is copping it as clubs/parents and academies are going in exactly the opposite direction to what is required for fun participation. Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
I actually think football NZ is on board with a more positive sport. But it seems like it has a really hard road to hike with parents, some clubs and for profit academiesthat seems fair, and i guess i am not in that system, so shouldn't really comment
My kids just participated in one of those "for profit academies". It was their choice, and both just wanted to learn some new skills. And it really helped the eldest, i could see immediate changes to the way he plays (example, he suddenly has a left foot shot). They are not all evil.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
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@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport. -
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.Because it's a chicks sport.....
Seriously though, I had no idea they were doing that in schools. Is it as a stand alone sport or just to cheerlead at big sports days (Like Rugby finals etc)
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Hooroo said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
@hydro11 said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby may be different because top quality players can develop later on. Any pro rugby player is going to need to be hitting the weights relentlessly from 16 onwards. I'm not sure you need to do much with a 12 year old to turn them into a pro. They obviously need basic ball skills but general athleticism is hugely important.
I think football is a lot different if you want to make it.
And dont get me started on cheer leading... that is borderline child abuse.
Is this a thing in NZ still?
A colleague has a son (about 18 or 19) who is a cheerleader and I think even got a scholarship(I may be incorrect about that part though)
I dunno if I would be volunteering the information to my mates that my boy is excelling at cheerleading....
Why not, it is bloody athletic and skillful, plus he gets to hang out with fit girls....
My issue is more around the cost (outrageous), and the terrible atmosphere that exists in some clubs. Have heard some absolute horror stories. Parents literally not being able to go on family holidays because the kid has to attend every practice or there is a severe consequence. And that doesnt even start on the peer pressure that exists in the sport.that doesn't sound much different to dancing. i thank the lord every day that i had boys. two close friends have mutliple daughters who dance, and their life is a fucking nightmare. And all the shit in this thread about kids' sport, goes double for dancing. The time required is out of control, and it consumes everyone in teh family's lives.
The bit i don't get is, for all that, one day in the near future, it will just stop. And all that time taken as a kid will be for naught.
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@Baron-Silas-Greenback said in NH Ditch Junior rep sides:
Rugby in NZ is actually trying really hard to make it about participation. We dont have year round rugby academies for primary school kids that charge a fortune, we dont have trial and grading games at primary school level in rugby, if a club has 2 teams they just try and merge the kids together.
Yeah in my experience Rugby has been leading the way for years now in trying to tidy up the parents behaviour which will help the kids...obviously doesnt stop some of the numpties out there.
When coaching kids, it is very much about making it fun, but trying to paint losing as fun will get you no where, kids arent stupid.
Even when my boys team was 5/6 years old, and no one is supposed to keep score, the kids knew the score.
While keeping the participation aspect as key, teaching the kids how to be both good winners and losers is a huge life lesson.
As to removing the rep side of things, I'm a skeptic this will do much, I'm the parent of a boy who is unlikely to ever make a rep side, he knows he is unlikely to make a rep side, that aint the reason he plays, and that wont be the reason he does not play if he chooses not to this year.
