2019 under 20's
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@KiwiMurph They're doing fine, yes. But maybe they would have been much better with a few better matches during their preparation? Who knows? I just see a difference in preparation between NH and SH nations. We can't change the fact that a lot of those NH players are already playing professionally (and only a few of ours), but we can change the difference in preparation.
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I'm not really suggesting that the Oceania comp is sufficient preparation, but it's almost good enough. The better value IMO is getting everyone, not just an annointed 28 at U20 level, better prepared at domestic U19 level.
Because our young forwards are always shit.
At the moment we accept that this is low hanging fruit that can be caught up as the players move through the 20 to 22 aged bracket.
But, it may be time to re-assess. Starting to see some All Black packs get dominated on occasions the last 2 or 3 years.
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@Rapido said in 2019 under 20's:
I'm not really suggesting that the Oceania comp is sufficient preparation, but it's almost good enough. The better value IMO is getting everyone, not just an annointed 28 at U20 level, better prepared at domestic U19 level.
Because our young forwards are always shit.
At the moment we accept that this is low hanging fruit that can be caught up as the players move through the 20 to 22 aged bracket.
But, it may be time to re-assess. Starting to see some All Black packs get dominated o occasions the last 2 or 3 years.
Agree that our U19 youngsters, particularly forwards, aren't that good. I wonder whether that has to do with schools' preference for the big, fast-maturing (physically) boys, instead of the more skilled ones that bulk up later?
Also good to note that in the NH, there is an U18 Six Nations tournament. This year, it was played for the second time.
I also mentioned in an earlier post about Australia that their Australian and U18 Schools team toured the NH, late 2018.
The South African Schools team plays countries like England, Wales, France and Italy.
So even at those younger levels, they already play more test matches.
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From a monetary funding POV. I'm pretty sure the Oceania U20s is a World Rugby funded comp - as it forms a part of the JWC / JWT qualifying process.
A Sanzaar U20 comp would have to be paid for by the respective unions.
Also, for a Tier 2 perspective. Fiji plus one of either Tonga or Samoa getting some games v NZ and Aus is good for them. The contact between NZ and Fiji at a junior level is at a factor of x to the power of zillion compared to NZ v Fiji at senior test level.
However - a SH U20 comp would be great if it could be paid for.
Here is my fantasy pitch to get it World Rugby funded.
Make it a JWC/JWT qualifying funnel for Oceania, Southern Africa, South America
8 teams: 2 pools of 4 > then Final (PLus play offs for 3rd, 5th , 7th) = 4 games compared to current 3. Almost guaranteed 2 hard games each for the Sanzaar big 4.Top 5 qualify for JWC.
4 SANZAAR nations (permanent members, coz we have the votes ...)
plus- 2 Oceania (Fiji, Sam, Tga play off for the 2 spots)
- 1 Africa (Nam and Zim playoff for the spot)
- 1 South America (probably Uruguay, but playoff v Brazil, Chile, Paraguay etc form this spot)
Have achieved:
- a funded tournament
- harder tournament, than current, for the big 4
- exposure for 4 Tier 2 nations v Sanzaar big 4
- Existing Continental qualifying at T2 level for those who don't make it to the SH comp.
and Uruguay would probably give a harder match than the watery custard that Samoa and Tonga put out at youth level.
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
The only good team we're playing in that tournament is Australia
And that's no sure thing, given some of the past results
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@taniwharugby said in 2019 under 20's:
had heard from someone in the know that the team was lacking in a number of areas a month or so back, turns out he was on the money.
Discipline seemed to be the biggest thing lacking
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@KiwiMurph and in the past it’s worked for us playing in the Oceania rugby championship..would like to us take on a couple of super rugby development squads as well..I know when my nephew played against the Blues Dev back in 2017, it was a really good physical contest for the Baby Blacks .
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@MajorRage Unfortunately, Finau seems to be prone to making controversial high tackles. Remember South Africans complaining about the hit in the tweet below?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
His technique may need some work; he won't be escaping a red card forever. But looking at the tackle in the Welsh game shown, the tackled player just landed from a jump, so moved downward when he hit the ground. Finau seemed to try going low, just not low enough, which may also have to do with the fact that he's probably somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95m tall. I assume this was the tackle he got yellow-carded for and the Welsh wanted red?
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@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
@MajorRage Unfortunately, Finau seems to be prone to making controversial high tackles. Remember South Africans complaining about the hit in the tweet below?
@Stargazer said in 2019 under 20's:
South Africans on twitter are complaining that Finau wasn't carded here.
His technique may need some work; he won't be escaping a red card forever. But looking at the tackle in the Welsh game shown, the tackled player just landed from a jump, so moved downward when he hit the ground. Finau seemed to try going low, just not low enough, which may also have to do with the fact that he's probably somewhere between 1.90 and 1.95m tall. I assume this was the tackle he got yellow-carded for and the Welsh wanted red?
Yeah, correct. The usual suspects talking about black invisibility cloaks etc. Quite a few safa's too ... although I guess the same that saw no problem with the coat hanger on Perenara.
I can see why some say red, for this, although I'm happy with the yellow. He was bloody low when he went in.
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All those moaners in the NH media got what they wanted ...
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So, according to the high-tackle sanction framework:
- it's a high tackle
- direct contact between shoulder and head
- degree of danger: arm swings forward prior to contact, active/dominant tackle, high speed, tackle completed, so high risk
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I think the first two mitigating factors may apply and yellow was correct, but obviously the citing commissioner didn't see it that way:
If the judiciary agrees that it should have been a red card, Finau will be looking at a mid-range suspension of 3-4 weeks.
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Clumsy, shit technique is not a mitigating factor.
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Yellow card seems about right. Again, why should the tackler be unjustly punished because people duck?
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@antipodean ducking into a tackle is a new technique, similarly jumping into a tackle.
