Springboks v Wallabies
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@pakman Yeah, the Wallabies are short a game manager or two. A Herbert/Mortlock centre or Willie O, Finnegan, Kefu type forward ball carrier would help because then Foley could sit and distribute, he'd have more time and a simple check down option if the defence was up flat. As it was the boks could rush up without fearing the wallaby runners too much.
As for the boks, there was a series of plays from the scrum in their own half to Faf's try that showed far more tactical appreciation than we bok supporters have been used to over the last few years.
From that scrum Pollard kicked wide (and beautifully) to Kolbe. On the recycle, we hit Notshe tight who made the swivel pass and the ball was sent wide to Estebeth who of all people threw a beauty of a skip to Dyantyi. Despite space Dyantyi grubbered into touch. That was stupid, but off the lineout bok pressure gave Dyantyi an opportunity to redeem himself with a splendid take off a weak clearance from the Aussies.
Having just taken the Aussies side to side, the boks now stressed their defence on the short side with an interesting switch to Marx, followed by PSDT again attacking the short side.
A phase later the ball gets to Pollard who is served up props defending in acres of space. He didn't need an invitation: try time Faf.
Still lots of work ons for this bok team but this is a team that is thinking far better than any bok team since the days of Fourie and Matfield (which is still, frankly, a shockingly low bar.)
What it really, really needs is a way to manufacture another three or four turnovers a game.
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Re: PSDT
I'm not a close follower of SAF players, so this is more impression than decent analysis. But I've struggled seeing the point with PSDT as a flanker. But he seems to have played himself into a permanent spot the last 2 matches based on his defence (tackling numbers).
I've been very impressed with JLDP in SR v NZ teams.
I guess every pack needs that defensive glue, but should the Boks have more ambition for their blindside flanker than PSDT's role?
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@rapido Earlier this year I would have agreed with you. But he has been immense the last two games and not just in defence. His support lines are much crisper and he hits a huge number of rucks. And he's not just hitting them anymore but doing something once he gets there. In short, he's a pest. The kind you hate to play against because he's a big unit with fair pace.
You're right though, that if he wants to rise above Reuben Thorne status he and the bok management have to find a way to make him more effective with ball in hand. Especially when Vermeluen isn't on the field.
But the work PSDT does is part of the reason that Kolisi can be the tournament leading forward in clean breaks.
I've not spent a lot of time looking at the bok lineout but he seems criminally underutilized there both in attack and defence. But it could be that he's being used primarily as a lifter.
I agree JLDP looked very good in SR. He's been injured and has not been able to translate SR form to the boks in the opportunities he's had. My guess is that Rassie will be hoping to have the headache of selecting between an on form JLDP (and his brother who has been good in the Currie Cup) and PSTD. But that will require the twins to massively up their defensive work rate.
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@pakman said in Springboks v Wallabies:
Wallabies no longer seem to produce 'thinking' backs, which gave them an edge in parts of the 80s/90s.
Throw Lynagh in his prime into that team on Saturday and I think they go close. Add Gregan/Farr Jones and Larkham/Horan and they win for me. Beale is mercurial but to me doen't have what it takes at 10. Foley a better game manager, but wooden.
Contrast Boks, where Pollard is growing into a very good operator and helps a lot of things to happen.Larkham? I think he’s part of the problem with this team himself. Too stilted and pre-planned in attack like the brumbie ball sides he used to play in.. the game has moved in but he hasn’t
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Not quite on topic, but I was at a Champagne party here in Tokyo last week (event for next year's WC), and Vermeulen and a bunch of others were there. He's a nice guy and a massive unit. I was talking with a Japanese prop (who spent some time at Waikato from Ricoh @Bovidae ) and he was small next to Vermeulen. Crazy.
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@crucial said in Springboks v Wallabies:
@pakman said in Springboks v Wallabies:
Wallabies no longer seem to produce 'thinking' backs, which gave them an edge in parts of the 80s/90s.
Throw Lynagh in his prime into that team on Saturday and I think they go close. Add Gregan/Farr Jones and Larkham/Horan and they win for me. Beale is mercurial but to me doen't have what it takes at 10. Foley a better game manager, but wooden.
Contrast Boks, where Pollard is growing into a very good operator and helps a lot of things to happen.Larkham? I think he’s part of the problem with this team himself. Too stilted and pre-planned in attack like the brumbie ball sides he used to play in.. the game has moved in but he hasn’t
As coach, can't disagree. But I have to say that my impression was that on the pitch Larkham was very good at playing what was in front of him. My dislike of him was up there with Gerrie Gemishuys! Still relish one game when he was playing fullback and he ghosted through Blues pack and slipped behind one of them only to meet the Iceman, who DESTROYED him. End of runs back into the forwards!
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I've played with Larkham and it's amazing how much time he seems to have on the field. He reinforces my opinion of tremendously talented players don't make great coaches. I think that's because they assume a level of skill, calmness and awareness that other players don't have.
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@african-monkey said in Springboks v Wallabies:
@gt12 Hiroshi Yamashita?
I don't think he ever played for Waikato, and is a Kobelco Steelers player.
I'm not sure who @gt12 is referring to.
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I thought you might have guessed, but he wasn't playing that high - maybe Waikato development?
Anyway, his name is Kotaro Yoshimura . He played for three clubs while he was in the Waikato, I think (I'd had a few, but I'm think University, Marist and Leamington).
Super nice kid who loves NZ and his footy.
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@antipodean said in Springboks v Wallabies:
I've played with Larkham and it's amazing how much time he seems to have on the field. He reinforces my opinion of tremendously talented players don't make great coaches. I think that's because they assume a level of skill, calmness and awareness that other players don't have.
Good point.
I used to watch the Brumbies doing their pre-season training and right back pre xmas they were concentrating on patterned plays off calls just as the Wobblies seem to do now. They would get out the playbook NFL style and walk everyone through a multi phase sequence like they were choreographing a dance routine then slowly speed it up each time.
It's a style that served McQueen, Larkham and the Brumbies well and produced results until defences concentrated on disrupting the expected pattern and stalling progress. -
@crucial said in Springboks v Wallabies:
@antipodean said in Springboks v Wallabies:
I've played with Larkham and it's amazing how much time he seems to have on the field. He reinforces my opinion of tremendously talented players don't make great coaches. I think that's because they assume a level of skill, calmness and awareness that other players don't have.
Good point.
I used to watch the Brumbies doing their pre-season training and right back pre xmas they were concentrating on patterned plays off calls just as the Wobblies seem to do now. They would get out the playbook NFL style and walk everyone through a multi phase sequence like they were choreographing a dance routine then slowly speed it up each time.
It's a style that served McQueen, Larkham and the Brumbies well and produced results until defences concentrated on disrupting the expected pattern and stalling progress.
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@mikethesnow said in Springboks v Wallabies:
@crucial said in Springboks v Wallabies:
@antipodean said in Springboks v Wallabies:
I've played with Larkham and it's amazing how much time he seems to have on the field. He reinforces my opinion of tremendously talented players don't make great coaches. I think that's because they assume a level of skill, calmness and awareness that other players don't have.
Good point.
I used to watch the Brumbies doing their pre-season training and right back pre xmas they were concentrating on patterned plays off calls just as the Wobblies seem to do now. They would get out the playbook NFL style and walk everyone through a multi phase sequence like they were choreographing a dance routine then slowly speed it up each time.
It's a style that served McQueen, Larkham and the Brumbies well and produced results until defences concentrated on disrupting the expected pattern and stalling progress.I posted some analysis from RugbyPass on the AB/Arg thread that made exactly this point. The ABs do have plans and drills around who should be where and when but the difference is that they also have the ability to adjust from one plan to another based on opportunities. When Cheika talks about not taking opportunities this is exactly what he is seeing. The team is 'over-drilled' and doesn't transition plays when the situation changes.
This was a fault of Hammateur coached sides as well. -
@antipodean said in Springboks v Wallabies:
I've played with Larkham and it's amazing how much time he seems to have on the field. He reinforces my opinion of tremendously talented players don't make great coaches. I think that's because they assume a level of skill, calmness and awareness that other players don't have.
I recall that way he used to drift through while the defence were waiting for him to pass, and I was yelling for someone to nail the forkah!
Found the same thing with skiing and tennis. The best players do things instinctively, and struggle to enunciate what they do.
