Use of the TMO
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
Test 1. Let down by TMO, twice.
Test 2. Let down by judiciary
Test 3. Let down by commentators.The refs were good. The periphery? Not so much
I'd argue the exact same thing happened in the Australia/Ireland series, except is was the TMO on all three occasions.
The on-field refs did pretty well, and neither fanbase could be too aggrieved at the decisions that were made. But the insistence of the TMO to get his nose into every corner of the game was just infuriating.
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@kiwimurph said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
Test 1. Let down by TMO, twice.
Test 2. Let down by judiciary
Test 3. Let down by commentators.There's also the case of missing Luke Whitelock's knock on at the back of the scrum for one of the AB tries. That was totally butchered. It was as clear as day on the standard tv feed that it required another look at the very least.
Case in point. Is that only important because it was right before a try? I bet there was 20 calls that were similar during the series, just at times that seem less "crucial".
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@barbarian said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
Test 1. Let down by TMO, twice.
Test 2. Let down by judiciary
Test 3. Let down by commentators.The refs were good. The periphery? Not so much
I'd argue the exact same thing happened in the Australia/Ireland series, except is was the TMO on all three occasions.
The on-field refs did pretty well, and neither fanbase could be too aggrieved at the decisions that were made. But the insistence of the TMO to get his nose into every corner of the game was just infuriating.
I mentioned it in the game thread, but that one for Coleman's side entry drove me nuts!!! Ireland had a penalty at the ruck. The TMO pipes up with is "just. checking. for. possible. foul. play" we watch 20 replays of Coleman entering from teh side with a bit of vigour. Result? Ireland get a penalty. At the same spot they already have one. Bra-fucking-vo everyone.
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@kiwimurph backwards out the hand onto someone's leg wannit?
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@siam said in Use of the TMO:
@kiwimurph backwards out the hand onto someone's leg wannit?
Then did it touch Luke or did Luke touch it? Either way, it probably should have been called back.
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@nepia said in Use of the TMO:
@siam said in Use of the TMO:
@kiwimurph backwards out the hand onto someone's leg wannit?
Then did it touch Luke or did Luke touch it? Either way, it probably should have been called back.
whatever Justin
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@nepia said in Use of the TMO:
@siam said in Use of the TMO:
@kiwimurph backwards out the hand onto someone's leg wannit?
Then did it touch Luke or did Luke touch it? Either way, it probably should have been called back.
It's on one of the GIFs i posted in the other thread.
It happens exactly at the moment Lacey is looking away and moving out the zone, also by then he happens on the other side of the scrum as he is trying to move out of the way.
If it had been an away test, the crowd would have howled and booed and probably a touchie would have recommended they look at it on the TMO. (which should have happened anyway TBH, one of the touchies should have said something - as much as it pains me to recommend more TMO reviews)
TMO review would have shown it to be OK. Try stands.
Crowd still would have moaned.
Gwyneth Paltrow arrives home to find her husband is cheating on her.
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@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
@kiwimurph said in Use of the TMO:
@mariner4life said in Use of the TMO:
Test 1. Let down by TMO, twice.
Test 2. Let down by judiciary
Test 3. Let down by commentators.There's also the case of missing Luke Whitelock's knock on at the back of the scrum for one of the AB tries. That was totally butchered. It was as clear as day on the standard tv feed that it required another look at the very least.
Case in point. Is that only important because it was right before a try? I bet there was 20 calls that were similar during the series, just at times that seem less "crucial".
Ioane did a huge obvious knock on running back on defence to reirieve a kick. I thought that was the worst refereeing call of the night.
McKenzie to Ioane sexy try was forward pass. Made to look worse by optical illusion of the inside pass and McKenzie getting hit backwards. But it was forward.
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@barbarian said in Use of the TMO:
I don't know why any of you are surprised that yet another AB win can be solely attributed to refereeing errors.
I haven't seen an honest NZ victory for at least 9 years.
Only 9?
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@majorrage said in Use of the TMO:
Only 9?
You beat Samoa 101-14 back in 2008.
A lot of 50/50s went your way (as usual) but I'm comfortable that those decisions didn't impact on the end result. The game would have been a fair bit closer though, that's for sure!
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@barbarian said in Use of the TMO:
@majorrage said in Use of the TMO:
Only 9?
You beat Samoa 101-14 back in 2008.
A lot of 50/50s went your way (as usual) but I'm comfortable that those decisions didn't impact on the end result. The game would have been a fair bit closer though, that's for sure!
Aura.
(Imagine now the sound of Mick Dundee making a bush telephone call ... )
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@barbarian said in Use of the TMO:
@pukunui said in Use of the TMO:
Agree on Ayoub. This sort of thing is exactly why this captains review system lots of people think will magically fix everything will fail. The review will still be sent to an incompetent tmo who will get it wrong 50% of the time.
The captain's review idea is flawed for a number of reasons.
It works in cricket because everyone is watching the ball, and the players have a similar view of proceedings to the umpire. They can, in most cases, make a fairly accurate call on LBW decisions.
In rugby, though, everyone is moving all the time. Take the contentious decision in the 76th minute of Ireland/Australia - Tolu Latu is penalised for not releasing the tackled player, though he clearly did and had all rights to the ball. He's penalised unfairly.
But does a challenge fix this? The captain, Pocock, is out in the backline and looking at the Irish backline. He's got no idea what is happening in the ruck. How could he challenge the decision? He just has to take the word of his player, but with all the things going on at ruck time, would the player even know if he was in the right?
It's just too messy to ever work and I really hope it never appears in rugby.
And in rugby often the view of the ball is obscured.
The Captain may be convinced a try is scored but the view cannot be conclusive regardless. Doesn't fix it.
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@booboo unless we give all captains X-ray powers.
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@nepia said in Use of the TMO:
@crucial Couldn't the ref had just stayed with his decision? Just told Ayoub, my angle I saw it grounded, I'm awarding the try?
I think the wording that Ayoub used pretty much forced his hand... didn't he say something like "I can see clear and obvious evidence of an arm under the ball" - or something like that?
It seemed to me like the ref was going to stay with his decision, said multiple times that he had seen it grounded... and George just kept upping his stake until he went the nuclear option, pulled out the Ace card - "clear and obvious" - check, and mate.
(Edited to include even more mixed metaphors. I think that's a new personal record.) -
@kruse said in Use of the TMO:
@nepia said in Use of the TMO:
@crucial Couldn't the ref had just stayed with his decision? Just told Ayoub, my angle I saw it grounded, I'm awarding the try?
I think the wording that Ayoub used pretty much forced his hand... didn't he say something like "I can see clear and obvious evidence of an arm under the ball" - or something like that?
It seemed to me like the ref was going to stay with his decision, said multiple times that he had seen it grounded... and George just kept upping his stake until he went the nuclear option, pulled out the Ace card - "clear and obvious" - check, and mate.
(Edited to include even more mixed metaphors. I think that's a new personal record.)Problem was that George wasn't asked for clear and obvious arm under ball, he was asked if there was a clear and obvious reason not to award a try. His response could have been 'I can clearly see an arm under the ball but cannot confirm yes or no on grounding, back to on-field decision'
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Rugby has become unrefereeable and harder and harder to enjoy for me. Every big game is marred by some controversy and/or disrupted by different officials conspiring to make a mess of things. The Lions tour last year in particular, not the red card but the fact we lost both tests to terrible decisions - one technically a penalty that shouldn't have been given (Sinckler jump), and one where a penalty should've been given but wasn't (accidental offside). Every French game this year the conversation has been dominated by the refs. Always magnified by social media / clickbait journalists / talking heads (commentators!) who don't know the rules. We've become worse than soccer.
/rant
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@crucial said in Use of the TMO:
@kruse said in Use of the TMO:
@nepia said in Use of the TMO:
@crucial Couldn't the ref had just stayed with his decision? Just told Ayoub, my angle I saw it grounded, I'm awarding the try?
I think the wording that Ayoub used pretty much forced his hand... didn't he say something like "I can see clear and obvious evidence of an arm under the ball" - or something like that?
It seemed to me like the ref was going to stay with his decision, said multiple times that he had seen it grounded... and George just kept upping his stake until he went the nuclear option, pulled out the Ace card - "clear and obvious" - check, and mate.
(Edited to include even more mixed metaphors. I think that's a new personal record.)Problem was that George wasn't asked for clear and obvious arm under ball, he was asked if there was a clear and obvious reason not to award a try. His response could have been 'I can clearly see an arm under the ball but cannot confirm yes or no on grounding, back to on-field decision'
Oh yes - nobody's denying that George was a twat from start to finish. My observation is pointing out how much of a twat he was.... I got the impression he realised that the ref was going to ignore him, so pulled out all the stops to stop him from doing so, with the "clear and obvious" bullshit.
