WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA
-
@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Think this is the problem.
My cousin has lived in Chicago for close to 30 years and comes home at least once each season to watch Wales play.
But didn't go to D.C.
And time & money weren't factors.
-
@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
- DC itself is not actually that large
I imagine DC was chosen because of the relatively large expat SA community in nearby Maryland/Virginia and/or it is one of the only cities in the US they can fly direct back to SA.
Outside of the home team, NZ, Ireland and possibly England (hasn't been tested) I don't think the quality of opposition really moves the needle. In Toronto which has had a steady diet of Tier 1/2 nations each year did approx 12k for both Fiji vs Japan and Canada vs Italy. NZ Maori pulled 22k, Ireland vs Canada pulled 20k.
Like you said all things considered I think 20k is a bloody good achievement.
-
@catogrande said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Classic comment on the WalesOnline web site:
“The last time rugby this poor was on C4, Ross from 'Friends' was trying to impress his English girlfriend.”
Question for you Mike. Gatland has come out about his disappointment that the Premiership Clubs did not release their players for this match and it does seem a bit petty to me, seeing as it is at the end of the club season, but then you also have to ask what are Wales doing organising the match outside the International window - why?
Not sure tbh
Historically Gatland / WRU have scheduled tests outside the International Window during the NH Autumn.
Could Argentina and Wales sustain a 3 test series? Doubtful
So aside from a test v Canada or the US that leaves Wales with only two matches this NH Summer.
Was it part of Major League Rugby's strategy to raise the profile of the game in the US? If so, failed on so many counts.
-
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
-
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@majorrage said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
What I never understood about this game was who was playing and where.
SA vs Wales in Washington DC? Gettnig 20k to this was a pretty good achievment given that:
- USA wasn't playing
- Neither SA or Wales are the world champs / highest ranked team
- DC itself is not actually that large
- Neither coach played a full strength team
Don't know too much about Welsh expats (am sure there are a few), but there certainly are loads of jaapies there. Although a lot would have been turned off by the team that was sent.
Even if I lived in DC, I doubt I would have bothered going.
Historically a lot of Welsh in neighbouring state Pennsylvania, but a stronger contingent in other areas of the US, and Canada.
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
-
@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
A decade ago I saw England B and Ireland play test matches in a cornfield outside Toronto (Markham) with 10,000 spectators and would not have been surprised that Welsh rugby supporters outnumbered Poms and Paddies at each. With a much better venue now available in Toronto, I have no doubts whatsoever a Wales v. Boks test match would have filled all 25,000 seats. 25/25 always looks better than 20/45. Philadelpha is a mercurial sports city, but I suspect they would have drawn far better than DC.
BMO recently upgraded to 30k which would be a stretch. Aside from the NZ Maori & Ireland vs Canada games there it's been a struggle to get anything over 10k without double and triple headers. Even the Canada/USA WC qualifier in Hamilton drew 13k.
Absolutely no chance that Wales vs South Africa gets 20k in Toronto at this time of year IMO. Newcastle vs Saracens played outside Philly earlier in the season and did ~7k, maybe an international fixture draws similar to DC? The lack of a central mid sized stadium in places like NYC, San Francisco or Philly make it tricky to play these fixtures without embarrassingly empty stadiums.
-
@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
people write optimistic business cases, and wave around big appearance fees. Because, y'know, we're all 'worth it'. A test match without front line players, held in America, that's clearly for money -- we could have learned something from Rugby League and the debacle that will unfold for them shortly.
Losing money may cause this to be re-thunk
-
It's already being re-thunk. Voluntary or involuntarily.
The discussion of the disaster of RIM is all on the first page of this thread.
In particular this post:
http://www.thesilverfern.com/topic/2316/wales-june-tour-sa-in-dc-argentina/14?page=1#Which contains this link: http://www.rugbytoday.com/elite/rim-disaster-confirmed-all-you-need-know
-
The reason I think the 21k crowd outcome is not bad considering the circumstances:
- The last throw of a dieing company who then didn't have the funds to promote the game.
- There was a huge college national 7s tournament an hour away at the same time sucking away plenty of local enthusiasts.
I'd say they've met the 21k figure pretty much through expats and maybe some local enthusiasts with no links to the college game. Reaching 21k at least stops some of the bleeding, they needed 28k to break even (stadium costs plus $1.5m fee split between SAF and Wales)
They didn't have the money to promote and attract local curious non-rugby fans. They also didn't really give themselves much time to do this even if they had the money to promote.
Also, unlike the 2 successful All Blacks visits to Chicago, I don't think either of these teams had sponsors with major USA presence. I'd say Adidas in particular would have had plenty of experience in getting publicity in Chicago for holding an event.
Ireland are playing Italy in Chicago in November this year. It will be interesting to see how that goes. I think it will do OK as the Irish and Italia diasporas will turn up. But I would say Italy will have trouble getting their best players as it will be out of window. I assume the best Italian players don't play for the 2 Italian Pro14 teams, but play in France and England?
Also re: Italy in Chicago in November. I don't know what RIMs impending banckruptcy will mean. As far as I understand they have the rights for test match hosting in the USA. Although I'm sure the major shareholder of RIM (the USARU) will want it to go ahead as this should actually make them some dosh.
-
Salacious Crumbreplied to nzzp on 4 Jun 2018, 22:44 last edited by Salacious Crumb 4 Jun 2018, 23:08
@nzzp said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@salacious-crumb said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
DC is a dive. And if 20,000 is a good achievement, then wtf were they doing scheduling it in a stadium that holds more than twice that number? It was more than half-empty ffs.
people write optimistic business cases, and wave around big appearance fees. Because, y'know, we're all 'worth it'. A test match without front line players, held in America, that's clearly for money -- we could have learned something from Rugby League and the debacle that will unfold for them shortly.
Losing money may cause this to be re-thunk
I honestly don’t think rugby supporters could care less about “big names” missing. This is rugby, where the team is much-much bigger than the “stars,.” I’ll reiterate, as somebody who has had to travel to DC for work too many times, that people don’t like to travel there, exemplified by hotel concierges who tell you to never go out alone during the day, and insist that walking anywhere at night — even in a group — is a really bad idea. I found out the hard way they’s ain’t bullshittin’. Dangerous ghettos as bad as anything in Baltimore or Detroit are only blocks away from the White House and Capitol Building. Lost count of the number of times strangers drove by, winding their windows down and calling me “pork chops,” and I don’t have any body fat on me. You get in, get out, and don’t stick around.
-
@rapido said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Also, unlike the 2 successful All Blacks visits to Chicago, I don't think either of these teams had sponsors with major USA presence. I'd say Adidas in particular would have had plenty of experience in getting publicity in Chicago for holding an event.
Wales kit sponsor is Under Armour
-
Welsh 23 named for 1st Test against Argentina this Saturday
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/44377886
Amos the only back retained from the SA win
Adams - Aviva Premiership's top try scorer - gets his debut.
Gatland true to his word and mixing things up in the pack
Davies in for Jenkins at 7
Argies favourites but as long as Wales kick well and go through the phases, who knows?
Wales XV:
Hallam Amos; Josh Adams, Scott Williams, Hadleigh Parkes, George North; Rhys Patchell, Gareth Davies
Wyn Jones, Elliot Dee, Dillon Lewis, Adam Beard, Cory Hill (capt), Seb Davies, James Davies, Ross MoriartyReplacements:
Ryan Elias, Rob Evans, Tomas Francis, Josh Turnbull, Aaron Wainwright
Aled Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Owen Watkin.Argentina: tbc
Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland).
Assistant referees: Jaco Peyper (South Africa), Mathieu Raynal (France).
TMO: Marius Jonker (South Africa)
-
There's an ongoing thread for all things Welsh
http://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/2316/wales-june-tour-sa-in-dc-argentina/34
-
-
Not sure why the individual Wales tests aren't allowed their own thread; why was "Argentina v Wales - Test #1" removed? Aren't people interested in Wales anymore?
-
@stargazer it's cause they is shit, innit
to be fair, no one cares about Argentina either
-
@stargazer said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Not sure why the individual Wales tests aren't allowed their own thread; why was "Argentina v Wales - Test #1" removed? Aren't people interested in Wales anymore?
BEcasue we have this tour thread which encompasses all tour events, including tests. (As MikeTheSnow tried pointing out)
-
Personally I just don't really care about Argentina. If Wales were playing SA or Aus I'd be far more interested.
-
If we keep this under a 15 point margin we're doing well.
-
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
If we keep this under a 15 point margin we're doing well.
You're as bad as the Irish trying to claim underdog status. The argies aren't waht they were - the team seems to have gone downhill since the last RWC unfortunately.
-
@nzzp said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
If we keep this under a 15 point margin we're doing well.
You're as bad as the Irish trying to claim underdog status. The argies aren't waht they were - the team seems to have gone downhill since the last RWC unfortunately.
At home with a side comprised of players who for the most part have been playing together week in week out versus a Wales team missing significant Lions calibre firepower.
Underdog status is hardly a stretch methinks.
-
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@nzzp said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
If we keep this under a 15 point margin we're doing well.
You're as bad as the Irish trying to claim underdog status. The argies aren't waht they were - the team seems to have gone downhill since the last RWC unfortunately.
At home with a side comprised of players who for the most part have been playing together week in week out versus a Wales team missing significant Lions calibre firepower.
Underdog status is hardly a stretch methinks.
World ranking #5 plays #9.
Welsh ref. -
@kruse said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@nzzp said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
If we keep this under a 15 point margin we're doing well.
You're as bad as the Irish trying to claim underdog status. The argies aren't waht they were - the team seems to have gone downhill since the last RWC unfortunately.
At home with a side comprised of players who for the most part have been playing together week in week out versus a Wales team missing significant Lions calibre firepower.
Underdog status is hardly a stretch methinks.
World ranking #5 plays #9.
Welsh ref.World ranking #5 is for past successes/failures not for future potential with current squad.
Referee is Irish.
-
FUCK YES
HUGE WIN for Wales.
Adam Beard was immense.
So too James Davies.
Two great tries scored.
-
Congratulations to Wales on the win! Not trying to take anything away from Wales's game, particularly their defence was very good, but what a lacklustre performance from the Pumas. Maybe tired after a huge series of games, and the travel, from the Jaguares?
And who was that idiot of a commentator? Who in their right mind is revealing the results of other games? I had been avoiding the news and internet all day, so I could watch S Africa v England without knowing the result, and then this dumbass starts discussing the games during his commentary. He also repeated it several times, and also the recent wins of the Jaguares were mentioned at least three times. Ugghhh.
The next game will be interesting. This win will give Wales a great boost for sure.
-
@stargazer said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Congratulations to Wales on the win! Not trying to take anything away from Wales's game, particularly their defence was very good, but what a lacklustre performance from the Pumas. Maybe tired after a huge series of games, and the travel, from the Jaguares?
And who was that idiot of a commentator? Who in their right mind is revealing the results of other games? I had been avoiding the news and internet all day, so I could watch S Africa v England without knowing the result, and then this dumbass starts discussing the games during his commentary. He also repeated it several times, and also the recent wins of the Jaguares were mentioned at least three times. Ugghhh.
The next game will be interesting. This win will give Wales a great boost for sure.
Never allowed the Pumas to get into second or maybe third gear.
All commentators do it. And even more appealing to him yesterday, sering as Wales only NH team to beat SH/in SH comp team
-
While we wait for the 2nd Test team announcement, the Welsh players have been told to get their dancing shoes dusted off
Crusaders coach Scott Robertson has responded to speculation linking him with the Wales job.
-
Scott Robertson says he's flattered by reports that he's in the conversation to be the Wales' next head coach, but says there's "nothing behind" them.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12069594
-
@tim said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
Scott Robertson says he's flattered by reports that he's in the conversation to be the Wales' next head coach, but says there's "nothing behind" them.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=12069594
Time will tell
-
@mikethesnow Can be a decent stepping stone to coaching the ABs (Henry, then Hansen).
-
@nepia said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
@mikethesnow Can be a decent stepping stone to coaching the ABs (Henry, then Hansen).
Then Gatland.
I'll get my coat 😂
-
Wales squad for the second test against the Pumas:
15 Hallam Amos (17 Caps)
14 Josh Adams (3 Caps)
13 Scott Williams (56 Caps)
12 Owen Watkin (5 Caps) -
11 George North (75 Caps)
10 Rhys Patchell (9 Caps)
9 Aled Davies (10 Caps)
1 Rob Evans (26 Caps)
2 Ryan Elias (4 Caps)
3 Tomas Francis (32 Caps)
4 Adam Beard (3 Caps)
5 Cory Hill (17 Caps) (CAPTAIN)
6 Ellis Jenkins (7 Caps)
7 James Davies (2 Caps)
8 Ross Moriarty (23 Caps)Replacements:
16 Elliot Dee (9 Caps)
17 Nicky Smith (20 Caps)
18 Dillon Lewis (4 Caps)
19 Bradley Davies (62 Caps)
20 Josh Turnbull (9 Caps)
21 Tomos Williams (1 Cap)
22 Gareth Anscombe (17 Caps)
23 Tom Prydie (6 Caps)SQUAD UPDATE:
Samson Lee has been released from the squad and returned home due to a back injury. He will undergo further assessment.Hadleigh Parkes suffered a compound facture to his finger in the test against Argentina last weekend. The injury rules him out of the final summer test and he will undergo further assessment on the injury in due course.
WALES MAKE FIVE CHANGES FOR FINAL TEST
Cory Hill continues as captain as Ellis Jenkins, Tomas Francis, Ryan Elias, Aled Davies and Owen Watkin all come into the side to face Argentina in Santa Fe on Saturday. Jenkins comes into the back-row at blindside flanker to link up with James Davies at openside and Ross Moriarty at No8. Hill and Beard continue their partnership in the second row whilst it is a new look front row with Ryan Elias and Tomas Francis coming in for their first starts of the tour alongside Rob Evans. Aled Davies also gets his first start at half-back alongside Rhys Patchell. Watkin comes into the midfield and partners Scott Williams in the centre with Hadleigh Parkes ruled out through injury (details below). The back-three is unchanged from the victory in San Juan last weekend with Hallam Amos at full-back with Josh Adams and George North on the wings.
-
Gatland true to his word
"We said we wanted to involve everyone and give them a chance to at least be a part of the 23," Gatland said.
Shame about Parkes, but great opportunity for Watkin to stake his claim.
Big ask to leave Gareth Davies out of the 23 but both Aled Davies and Tomos Williams have impressed this tour and season.
Pack looks technically strong and mobile.
Plan to run the Argies around.
Really looking forward to this.
If Wales can go 3-0 on the road whilst playing 2nd and 3rd choice players it bodes very, very well.
If Wales lose, the tour has still been a massive success.
-
-
@stargazer said in WALES JUNE TOUR: SA IN DC, ARGENTINA:
So Landajo at 9 the only change.
Let's hope the same cattle produce the same steak with no sizzle.
-
Beautuful afternoon for rugby.
Both teams wanting to play.
Argentina 0 - 3 Wales
13 mins gone -
Great turnover by Ellis Jenkins for the penalty.
Patchell slots his second.
Argentina 0 - 6 Wales
16 mins gone -
Wales dismantle the Argentinian scrum
Patchell misses the penaltyArgentina 0 - 6 Wales
22 mins gone -
Patchell thows a speculative pass wide, Josh Adams picks up the bouncing ball and from nothing carves up the Argentinian defence to run it in from 40 yards.
Argentina 0 - 13 Wales
23 mins gone -
Great attacking play comes to naught as Watkin called offside in the act of scoring.
Back for penalty advantage.
Patchell slots it.
Argentina 0 - 16 Wales
34 mins gone
Post 43 of 100