Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket
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Culture is a function of leadership.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
the ABs are universally despised because Pinetree ended Catchpole's career. Is that a fair statement?
No. I would like to see proof that he deliberately did that.
Not much doubt that this was deliberate cheating.
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@nta yep, especially when your organisations culture is supposed to be driven by the people at the top, it isn't just those directly involved that should be sanctioned or impacted, there are others who will likely have been party to this, or at least known something was up and chose to ignore.
I mean who signs off the expense account for sandpaper form Bunnings
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@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
I am starting to get the feeling that poor old Davey Warner is going to be the one hanged because he is the prize that will give CA the most reprieve if they execute him. A sort of wicked witch of the east for Australian Cricket (albeit built like a munchkin).
I'm still battling with the thought that any of the rumours of someone never playing for Australia again for this could be real though
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@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
I am starting to get the feeling that poor old Davey Warner is going to be the one hanged because he is the prize that will give CA the most reprieve if they execute him. A sort of wicked witch of the east for Australian Cricket (albeit built like a munchkin).
I'm still battling with the thought that any of the rumours of someone never playing for Australia again for this could be real though
If Steve Smith doesn't play for Aussie again, it will be a travesty! I hate enjoying to watch him bat. But I want to hate enjoying it more!
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Well put...
David Warner was certainly one. There’s a sense that every time there’s a bin fire in cricket the opener has been seen wandering from the scene with a pocketbook of matches, an empty can of petrol and a ‘wasn’t me’ shrug It’s not all him.
The contempt has been building for years. Opposition players have danced a jig of delight that this has caught up with the Australians. They aren’t holding back in public and in private.
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@Snowy you sound like my wife when I remind her of something she did: "WHEN did I say that? Give me proof!"
@taniwharugby said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@nta yep, especially when your organisations culture is supposed to be driven by the people at the top, it isn't just those directly involved that should be sanctioned or impacted, there are others who will likely have been party to this, or at least known what was up and chose to ignore.
I'm not suggesting that Sutherland was party to the ball tampering or on-field skullduggery of course, but that his time as CEO has coincided with some pretty fucking ordinary behaviour on field.
Maybe its coincidental, but at the same time he gives the impression of a bloke who will do anything to hang onto the job, not understanding that the role cricket plays in our culture is much more than just him getting squillions to dye his hair and look po-faced at pressers.
Michael Clarke did make some good points about accountability over his time in the Test team: back in the day it was the front office and back office. Coach, captain, selector made decisions. Game was played. Now its board of selectors, high performance manager, head coach + assistants making decisions.
I mean who signs off the expense account for sandpaper form Bunnings
Well played.
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@barbarian Yeah - it's a bit unfortunate that it's Smith who has taken the fall - I thought he was the most likable Australian captain since Tubby Taylor.
I'd imagine we'll get a 60 minutes type interview from someone (probably Smith) in a couple of months.
If they hang Warner completely out to dry, we might get a whole kaboodle of beans spilled.
I'll be surprised if any of them get more than a six month ban - though Bancroft's position was probably under serious threat on form related issues, so he may pay the highest price. I'll be pretty surprised if we never see Warner in international cricket again.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@virgil said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
Think it goes way beyond ball tampering Nick, that’s why the backlash has been so over the top. ( especially back home in Oz)
Let me quote you again, and highlight the important bits:
Integrity and Australian cricket team simply don’t belong together in the same sentence, never has never will.
I think you'd agree the integrity of the team around the Border and Waugh captaincy periods was pretty robust. Going back further to Bradman during bodyline, if you like.
If you're going to start throwing the word "never" around, then the ABs are universally despised because Pinetree ended Catchpole's career. Is that a fair statement?
I had nothing but absolute admiration for Border and Waugh. I wished NZ cricket had a couple of guys as good as them.
I don't remember seeing Bradman play but I hear he did ok.
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@mn5 said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I had nothing but absolute admiration for Border and Waugh. I wished NZ cricket had a couple of guys as good as them.
And both could get cranky, sure. As well as aggressive. But were they Warners? Nup.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@mn5 said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I had nothing but absolute admiration for Border and Waugh. I wished NZ cricket had a couple of guys as good as them.
And both could get cranky, sure. As well as aggressive. But were they Warners? Nup.
Absolutely not. They epitomised hard but fair.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
but that his time as CEO has coincided with some pretty fucking ordinary behaviour on field.
Nice to hear an Aussie admit that.
As for sounding like your wife - we wouldn't have to do that if you behaved.
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@mn5 said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
Absolutely not. They epitomised hard but fair.
I'm still a massive Steve Waugh fan. I reckon he and his team did more for test cricket than most people. They scored fast, played hard but fair, and were prepared to risk losing to win test matches. Didn't hurt to have two legendary bowlers with a great supporting cast around fora few years, but you still had to do something with it. What a player.
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@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I think you'd agree the integrity of the team around the Border and Waugh captaincy periods was pretty robust. Going back further to Bradman during bodyline, if you like.
Healy, Mark Waugh and Warne were senior players on those teams and hardly paragons of virtue. The Muller and Elliott incidents were hardly the fine moments either.
The mix of individuals were the same as they are today - Aussie always carry a couple of total nuffys usually with small man syndrome. The key was Waugh and Border didn't let the inmates under the asylum. You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Waugh really was a talented leader.
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@nta I didn't think you were suggesting it, and while I am not a fan of comparing Sports organisations with Business (I know some on here are)
Last year NZ had some major changes to the Health & Safety laws, whereby previously a CEO could escape punishments based on ignorance, the changes to the laws removed that and now a CEO must be party to the H & S requirements of his business because a breach could result in heavy fines (a local company here was just fined $400k for a recent breach - uninsurable)
So while I don't think in this instance you can say he is culpable, I think that he must bear some sting as this is his organization and he has allowed behavior or attitudes to get to this point, this hasn't all 'just happened'
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@rotated said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Has anyone heard from Hayden in all of this?
He usually loves a rent-a-quote comment. Interestingly when Australia are clearly in the wrong he is all silent.
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@mariner4life said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@barbarian not sure I am quite buying that one Barb, it's a little overdone in the hyperbole stakes.
The narrative around Smith and the press conference has changed quite a bit. I'm not sure he really did selflessly dive in front of the bullet fired at "Bangers". It sounded more like when your parents get you to explain why you are in trouble.
"It's my responsibility, but bangers, tell them what you did".
That plays into it, though. Maybe Smith isn't really a leader- it's just not in his personality. He handled it about as well as he could have, which is to say not very well at all. Well intentioned enough, but poorly executed.
I like the article more than most because it's from an actual journo on the ground, who has followed this team around for years. That knowledge counts for something, and I place a lot more trust in that than I do some of the vacuous think-pieces that are floating around the internet.
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@barbarian said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
...some of the vacuous think-pieces that are floating around the internet.
You know yo're on the Fern, eh bro
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@rotated said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
@nta said in Convicts v Marxist Land Thieves - Crucket:
I think you'd agree the integrity of the team around the Border and Waugh captaincy periods was pretty robust. Going back further to Bradman during bodyline, if you like.
Healy, Mark Waugh and Warne were senior players on those teams and hardly paragons of virtue. The Muller and Elliott incidents were hardly the fine moments either.
The mix of individuals were the same as they are today - Aussie always carry a couple of total nuffys usually with small man syndrome. The key was Waugh and Border didn't let the inmates under the asylum. You saw once Ponting took the captaincy and guys like Hayden/McGrath/Langer (see small man syndrome) were let off the leash that things began getting a lot more uglier almost immediately.
Waugh really was a talented leader.
What did Langer do?
