The Ashes
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For @MN5 's interest - that pic of Crowe was from an article discussing over/under rated cricketers:
Who is the most underrated international cricketer?
Answer (1 of 375): A burly southpaw, born in Cape Town, has played many-a-great knocks but I haven’t seen his name being mentioned anywhere when we talk about the greats of SA. We all talk about Gibbs, Kallis, ABD, Faf, Smith, Zulu, Jonty etc but this gentleman’s name is always ignored. Take a lo...
They get to a section on how Crowe, Fleming, and Paddles were all generally underrated because they were New Zealanders.
But I highlight that article because its a screaming subcontinental orgy of hometown worship, kicking off with this gem:
Overrated : Donald Bradman - By far the most overrated cricketer because although his average was impressive, he played most of his matches against the same team in an era when international cricket was still in its infancy. It is not possible to replicate his average nowadays because the game has become much more professional and harder, there have been numerous players who have in many ways surpassed his records yet some still claim he is better.Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
Fuck Indians are stupidly myopic. I remember an article claiming Tendulkar was better than him. I'd argue he wasn't even the best batsman of his generation let alone being close to the Don.
You know if you discard Crowe’s first 7 tests and his last 5 his average...
Does the fern still have a broken record award?
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Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
I'd love to know the 'numerous' players who've surpassed him.
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
I'd love to know the 'numerous' players who've surpassed him.
Probably all Indian...
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
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You know if you discard Crowe’s first 7 tests and his last 5 his average...
I must have missed this as it has clearly been bought up numerous times before - and is a meaningless stat as he played those 12 tests - but what is the answer?
56 I think. @Virgil ?
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
Again, pretty irrelevant when Bradmans average is compared to his peers. Not many others of that era averaging 50 or 60 let alone 80 or 90.
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
The rule change is the amount of fielders, not the ability to bowl at the body.
@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
Again, pretty irrelevant when Bradmans average is compared to his peers. Not many others of that era averaging 50 or 60 let alone 80 or 90.
Which is why his position as the best ever batsman should be unquestioned.
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@antipodean said in The Ashes:
@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
The rule change is the amount of fielders, not the ability to bowl at the body.
@antipodean said in The Ashes:
Absolute horseshit. Bradman is THE most dominant individual in any sport. The only player who could touch him would be a bowler averaging 10 per wicket or an All rounder averaging 20 and 50 respectively. To have a go at his average and claiming it was down to the era he played is insulting to a genuine great like Walter Hammond who averaged 'only' 58 during the same period.
To a degree the point is correct. Bradman played during a period when it was considered unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score. His average during the bodyline series shows what happens when that courtesy is removed.
He's still the best batsman ever.
"unsporting to not present batsmen with an opportunity to score."
Really? The "courtesy" was removed by bowling at the body and head with multiple players behind square on the leg-side. You're not allowed to do that any more and therefore all modern players are getting an easy ride.
Again, pretty irrelevant when Bradmans average is compared to his peers. Not many others of that era averaging 50 or 60 let alone 80 or 90.
Which is why his position as the best ever batsman should be unquestioned.
I know. Not sure how there are any legitimate challengers according to Indian media. Fat more interest in who is second best....
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You know if you discard Crowe’s first 7 tests and his last 5 his average...
I must have missed this as it has clearly been bought up numerous times before - and is a meaningless stat as he played those 12 tests - but what is the answer?
56 I think. @Virgil ?
How would I know, I thought you were the Hogan fanboy...
Yes it’s something like 56
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
Anderson -
Interestingly 3 English batsmen played 10 or more games in Australia and averaged over 60 - none of them are in that XI. (Barrington, Sutcliffe, Hammond)
For Australia in England, 4 batsmen have achieved the same feat - and 3 of them are the Ashes XI. (Ponsford the other)
English bowlers in Australia - many from the 1800s at the top, SF Barnes just over 22, Geoff MIller the best recent bowler (22.47). Larwood around 27, Botham over 28 and Anderson almost 40 .....
Australian bowlers in England - 5 average below 21, 2 of them in that XI - but the one with the lowest average isn't. (Alderman is the best, Trumble is behind McGrath and Lindwall behind Lillee)
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonSome serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.
Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???
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For the time before the 2 test matches start - this XI was voted for on the BBC Sport website based on performances in Ashes tests. In my best Murray Deaker voice "Yours please"
Hobbs
Boycott
Bradman
Border
S. Waugh
Botham
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
McGrath
AndersonSome serious legends have missed out on that team.....Hammond, Hayden, Cook, Gooch.....that's just the top three batsmen.
Gotta be question marks on Boycott, Border, S Waugh and Anderson....not denying they're greats but in an absolute ALL TIME 11???
Not only does he start, he also captains the team. He would be my second pick after Bradman
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