Exodus 2018
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
@tim I wish I could upvote that more than once!
It would be great if they let the JABs play the Pacific Nations Cup again; although the PNC now serves as a double for RWC qualfication. Or other credible opponents; I much more prefer the JABs as an AB development tool than the Maori ABs (and the Barbarians). If South Africa 'A', England 'A', Emerging Italy, Argentina XV etc etc can have games each year, then why not the JABs? Letting them regularly play the PI teams and the forementioned 'A' teams can only be good, can't it? I assume it doesn't happen for financial reasons? There's no reason why they can't have regular training sessions with the ABs, if separating fringe ABs from the first choice squad is a concern.
Agree completely. Ireland have Wolfhounds (capped) and Emerging Ireland. Hey the fuck don’t NZ have a second team that caps players? Make it mandatory to play for them before you get senior cap.
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@pot-hale The Junior ABs are our official second team that can cap players, but they haven't used them for years.
Instead, they're using the Maori ABs for Maori players and the NZ Barbarians for players of all backgrounds, both of which are no official national teams. There's only one reason why I can agree to this practice and that is that if they trial players who prove not to be AB material, these players can still play for another country if eligible. But there's a large group of fringe ABs who are already capped and only have a chance of making the ABs again in case of (many) injuries, and they should definitely have a chance to play in an official team and the Maori ABs simply exclude too many of those players due to not be Maori.
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@stargazer the Nz 7’s are the 2nd team now that can mean players can’t play for another country except that loophole for 7’s during Olympics
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@family-man which is kinda daft, given how few seem to come through that path now compared to 10-15 years ago, 7's could almost now be considered a separate sport for eligbility.
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@family-man That's incorrect. There's a senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team, the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team and the senior National Representative Sevens Team of the Union of the country.
So there are three official teams. Obviously, our senior XVs team is the All Blacks, the "next" senior XVs team are the Junior All Blacks and then there are the All Blacks 7s.
https://www.worldrugby.org/handbook/regulations/reg-8/reg-8
http://www.allblacks.com/Teams/Junior
It is correct, however, that playing for the AB7s can block a player from playing for a different country in XVs (depending on age).
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@stargazer there is no junior all blacks though which makes the 7’s as the other team
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@family-man The JABs still exist as a team. Look at the link to their page. They're just not used at the moment. NZR could decide to change that whenever they want.
For official purposes this team is not considered defunct, any future information regarding the Junior All Blacks will be revealed on allblacks.com -
@stargazer that is my point though they are not used and have not been used for quite some time and don’t look like they will be used
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@family-man They are not "defunct", so are still the next senior fifteen-a-side National Representative Team.
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@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
So there are three official teams. Obviously, our senior team is the All Blacks, the "next" senior team are the Junior All Blacks and then there are the All Blacks 7s.
Yep. That is why we shouldn't be selecting on racial grounds. My own SJW post - I'm shocked at myself.
I love the Maori AB but we should be entering the JAB into competition as our second team. It protects us from a bit of the poaching from up north and I really don't understand the logic? Anyone explain that to me...
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@snowy said in Exodus 2018:
@stargazer said in Exodus 2018:
So there are three official teams. Obviously, our senior team is the All Blacks, the "next" senior team are the Junior All Blacks and then there are the All Blacks 7s.
Yep. That is why we shouldn't be selecting on racial grounds. My own SJW post - I'm shocked at myself.
I love the Maori AB but we should be entering the JAB into competition as our second team. It protects us from a bit of the poaching from up north and I really don't understand the logic? Anyone explain that to me..
How would the Junior ABs protect us from poaching? If a player isn't making the ABs but is JAB capped he's still going to head overseas. Hell, we've had a 10 who is an injury away from being our starting 10 leave and recent ABs are going as well.
The Maori team play due to financial reasons.
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@snowy I have a theory; anyone else's is as good as mine.
The Maori ABs have a history, a tradition, and an expectation has been created they get regular games (usually one or two per year). Imagine the uproar for not organising games! So they use the MABs as a development tool for younger Maori players.
That has a price tag. Due to that price tag, there is no money for games for the JABs and maybe also not enough players if Maori players are already selected.
It's also easy to organise Maori ABs v NZ Baabaas games, without players getting capped. Exactly the fact that players don't get locked in by playing for the NZ Baabaas may be a reason for not using the JABs. Not sure whether NZR is that considerate though.
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@nepia said in Exodus 2018:
How would the Junior ABs protect us from poaching? If a player isn't making the ABs but is JAB capped he's still going to head overseas.
A "capped" player isn't eligible to play for another country so the "development" players would have to serve their time rather than the grand parent rule. It probably wouldn't affect many but it is something. Hopefully the Pichot 5 year rule will help as well.
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@snowy said in Exodus 2018:
@nepia said in Exodus 2018:
How would the Junior ABs protect us from poaching? If a player isn't making the ABs but is JAB capped he's still going to head overseas.
A "capped" player isn't eligible to play for another country so the "development" players would have to serve their time rather than the grand parent rule. It probably wouldn't affect many but it is something. Hopefully the Pichot 5 year rule will help as well.
We aren't really losing players that way anyway. Lets take James Lowe as an example, if he was capped by the JAB's he's still going overseas.
We lose players at a certain stage of their career for monetary reasons not because they want to play for other countries. JAB's isn't going to stop that.
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@bovidae said in Exodus 2018:
What competition?
Churchill cup, Pacific Nations cup spring to mind where we sent a racially selected team.
I just think that we should have our "second" team as JAB and the Maori AB as a BaaBaas type team. I certainly don't want to get rid of them. I understand that it comes down to money but JAB and MAB should be sustainable, they will both draw a crowd and TV income.
@Nepia As I said it wouldn't affect many, but a young non Maori player who is capped JAB might think twice about heading overseas if the 5 years came into play and he had a chance at the AB. We are starting to lose younger guys it seems.
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But only against lower tier teams from their region (e.g., Americas Rugby Championship). Who does SA A play each year? Namibia, Zimbabwe?
I'm talking about an official tournament like in the 6N when all national teams (A, womens, age group) play eachother over a weekend. The JABs last played in 2009 and I doubt the Pacific Nations Cup will be resurrected soon. Aust A/Barbarians haven't been used since 2011.
The likes of Samoa, Fiji and Tonga would prefer to play the ABs, not the JABs or Maori. Therein lies the problem.
