Crusaders 2018
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@cgrant said in Crusaders 2018:
And what about Ala'alatoa ? Will he commit to NZ or Australia ? He is playing better and better, and has far more potential than his brother IMO.
If I was him I would commit to Australia. Kepu is already 33 and his brother is much better at loosehead than he is at tighhead. They really don't have anyone else of quality in that position. In NZ, he would have Franks, Laulala, Moli and promising youngsters such as Lomax to compete with for an AB spot. It's a much harder task.
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@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@african-monkey said in Crusaders 2018:
Oli Jager used to dominate at club level from what I saw of him last season. In most games the Brighton front row would get the upper hand over their oppsing scrums.
Great, but why are the Saders developing a future Irish player? He's on record as saying he sees himself as Irish and wants to play for them.
(Assumes trump voice) "Send him home!"
Maybe complain about the Chiefs picking Michael Leitch or that useless Japanese prop instead.
Oh I've done that.
How about "as well". Or can't we complain about anything Canterbury?
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@pot-hale said in Crusaders 2018:
@nepia said in Crusaders 2018:
@pot-hale said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@pot-hale
Perhaps, but I don't want to invest in him unless he says he wants a black jersey and is prepared for fight for it.
I should mention that I'm only going by what he has said:
And as for the suggestion that he might have a choice to make somewhere down the line, all going well, Jager says he still feels like an Irishman.
Context. He's being interviewed by an Irish journalist doing a tour of NZ about rugby and talking to Irish players based there. His audience is largely Irish. He's not going to say - nah I'm not interested in Ireland, I'm here now. Nor is he going to say - nah I'm going to be an All Black. So he punts down the middle.
He's Irish, he should play for Ireland.
Well to be accurate, he was born in England to an Irish mother and Dutch father, grew up in Ireland and moved to NZ at 18/19. He's three years this year, so that gives him 4 countries in theory.
Just think how good the Dutch could be ...
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@booboo said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@african-monkey said in Crusaders 2018:
Oli Jager used to dominate at club level from what I saw of him last season. In most games the Brighton front row would get the upper hand over their oppsing scrums.
Great, but why are the Saders developing a future Irish player? He's on record as saying he sees himself as Irish and wants to play for them.
(Assumes trump voice) "Send him home!"
Maybe complain about the Chiefs picking Michael Leitch or that useless Japanese prop instead.
Oh I've done that.
How about "as well". Or can't we complain about anything Canterbury?
My point is that those guys are mercenaries, other than playing for the Chiefs they don't contribute anything to NZ rugby.
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
I'm happy for someone like that to be given an opportunity.
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@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
That sounds like he's already eligible for NZ selection?
Thats a bit different from a player who is only eligible for another country
I see he was born in England too so he could play for 3 countries
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He either is or will be soon. However, he's on record as saying he wants to play for Ireland.
If he ends up committing to NZ (regardless is whether he turns out for us), I'll happily buy a round for Sammy and Pot Hale whenever they're in Tokyo.*
*to be fair, I'd probably do that anyway, but in this case I'll get to enjoy it more.
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@duluth said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
That sounds like he's already eligible for NZ selection?
Thats a bit different from a player who is only eligible for another country
I see he was born in England too so he could play for 3 countries
@pot-hale said in Crusaders 2018:
Well to be accurate, he was born in England to an Irish mother and Dutch father, grew up in Ireland and moved to NZ at 18/19. He's three years this year, so that gives him 4 countries in theory.
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@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@booboo said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@african-monkey said in Crusaders 2018:
Oli Jager used to dominate at club level from what I saw of him last season. In most games the Brighton front row would get the upper hand over their oppsing scrums.
Great, but why are the Saders developing a future Irish player? He's on record as saying he sees himself as Irish and wants to play for them.
(Assumes trump voice) "Send him home!"
Maybe complain about the Chiefs picking Michael Leitch or that useless Japanese prop instead.
Oh I've done that.
How about "as well". Or can't we complain about anything Canterbury?
My point is that those guys are mercenaries, other than playing for the Chiefs they don't contribute anything to NZ rugby.
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
I'm happy for someone like that to be given an opportunity.
He seems to like the place. He first headed down when he was 14 for a month long training stint. Went back when he was 17 and did a stint in HIgh Performance unit. And got asked back again after he turned 18. Been there since. And now locked in till 2020. It'll be interesting to see how it goes. He's an interesting
projecterrr I mean prospect. -
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@cgrant said in Crusaders 2018:
I would add Fidow to this list.
What list? This is the crusaders 2018 thread
I was replying to akan004 who was citing Franks, Laulala, Moli and Lomax.
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@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@booboo said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@african-monkey said in Crusaders 2018:
Oli Jager used to dominate at club level from what I saw of him last season. In most games the Brighton front row would get the upper hand over their oppsing scrums.
Great, but why are the Saders developing a future Irish player? He's on record as saying he sees himself as Irish and wants to play for them.
(Assumes trump voice) "Send him home!"
Maybe complain about the Chiefs picking Michael Leitch or that useless Japanese prop instead.
Oh I've done that.
How about "as well". Or can't we complain about anything Canterbury?
My point is that those guys are mercenaries, other than playing for the Chiefs they don't contribute anything to NZ rugby.
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
I'm happy for someone like that to be given an opportunity.
Leitch is a NZer. Now, I know you're in a everybody is picking on Canterbury mood but don't you think it's odd the amount of Australian players on the Crusaders books this year and next? That's not to say other franchises don't do it as well (the Chiefs enticing that young Australian is equally idiotic). A few years back when the Canes couldn't find a 10 the NZRU wouldn't let them select Brock James from the NPC - now we have at least three Aussie qualified players in one franchise in positions we're either well served in NZ (wing, loose forward) or need to have our own players develop with the top guys (prop).
A couple of spots reserved for PIs is all good with me, as I said below - any tier one countries does my head in though.
Anyway, your earlier comments on this thread about Blackadder and Hansen/Tew suggests you value Crusaders rugby over NZ rugby - which might explain why you're getting some grief over this. I want the Chiefs to win Super rugby, but not to the detriment of NZ rugby and the ABs success and basically any player we pay from another tier one country is to the detriment of NZ rugby.
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@nepia said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@booboo said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
@gt12 said in Crusaders 2018:
@african-monkey said in Crusaders 2018:
Oli Jager used to dominate at club level from what I saw of him last season. In most games the Brighton front row would get the upper hand over their oppsing scrums.
Great, but why are the Saders developing a future Irish player? He's on record as saying he sees himself as Irish and wants to play for them.
(Assumes trump voice) "Send him home!"
Maybe complain about the Chiefs picking Michael Leitch or that useless Japanese prop instead.
Oh I've done that.
How about "as well". Or can't we complain about anything Canterbury?
My point is that those guys are mercenaries, other than playing for the Chiefs they don't contribute anything to NZ rugby.
Jager came here as an 18 year old, had to find work outside of rugby, probably holds New Zealand residency, lives in Christchurch for the whole year, plays regular club rugby, contributes greatly to the Brighton club and community I'm told, and has worked his way up through the grades.
I'm happy for someone like that to be given an opportunity.
Leitch is a NZer. Now, I know you're in a everybody is picking on Canterbury mood but don't you think it's odd the amount of Australian players on the Crusaders books this year and next? That's not to say other franchises don't do it as well (the Chiefs enticing that young Australian is equally idiotic). A few years back when the Canes couldn't find a 10 the NZRU wouldn't let them select Brock James from the NPC - now we have at least three Aussie qualified players in one franchise in positions we're either well served in NZ (wing, loose forward) or need to have our own players develop with the top guys (prop).
A couple of spots reserved for PIs is all good with me, as I said below - any tier one countries does my head in though.
Anyway, your earlier comments on this thread about Blackadder and Hansen/Tew suggests you value Crusaders rugby over NZ rugby - which might explain why you're getting some grief over this. I want the Chiefs to win Super rugby, but not to the detriment of NZ rugby and the ABs success and basically any player we pay from another tier one country is to the detriment of NZ rugby.
Leitch plays for Japan and doesnt contribute anything to NZ rugby other than playing for the Chiefs.
I 100% value Crusaders/ Canterbury success over AB success. I know I'm in a minority here but I've never made that a secret. I hardly ever post on All Blacks threads because I don't care that much.
I'd probably even rank local club rugby (community sport in general actually) as more important than the Abs. Sport is for the local communty and I think the ABs have lost that in search of profit in recent years.
So yes, I want the Crusaders to play the best team possible,
I think that because he's come over here and played through the grades, he's actually benefited NZ rugby at grassroots level. Rugby isnt only about the professional side (although I can understand a NZer living in Sydney having a different view on this)
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@nepia I'm tending to agree - which goes against the grain.
I guess, under the three year residency rule, probably all of Macilai, Jager and Samu are already eligible for NZ. And Alaalatoa is probably more two years towards it. All of which begs the question of whether any of these guys should be picked for the ABs - to my mind, none of them are primarily New Zealanders - though the precedent is already set, including by their team-mate Tamanivalu. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if, given the choice, all of them have a preference to be ABs over their home countries.
Ioane is sort of the odd man out, in that he's never going to be eligible for NZ - but, on the other hand, he's seemingly unlikely ever to feature for Oz again either.
Strangest thing is that all of these Australian guys are good players who would have benefited the under-strength Australian teams - especially Ioane, who was a known quantity and probably hasn't been greatly improved by coaching in NZ - compared with Samu and Alaalatoa.
On Sammy's side of the ledger - I'm glad we had them, because they all contributed to a long overdue Super title, but I'd like to see us now working towards thinning them out - and, in fact, thinning out a few more that don't play NPC rugby in the Crusaders' region (without being completely anal about this).
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@chris-b are the ‘regions’ still relevant given the direct contracting and player movement we see. I didn’t think the ‘protected’ players system existed anymore like years past.
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@act-crusader It doesn't.
I'd just like to see us - as much as possible - developing people who are playing for Canterbury and Ta$man, rather than developing people who play for other provinces.
But, we can't be anal about this. As I saw Jeff Wilson pointing out in regard to people saying that the Blues have the largest catchment in NZ -"You don't. The other franchises are recruiting from the whole of NZ!"
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@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
... I think the ABs have lost that in search of profit in recent years.
Whilst I respect your opinion and your right to wrong (
) the thing about that is the AB's profit is that it funds Super Rugby including the Crusaders and a good proportion of Rugby in general.Super Rugby including the Saders will not fund themsleves.
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@booboo said in Crusaders 2018:
@sammyc said in Crusaders 2018:
... I think the ABs have lost that in search of profit in recent years.
Whilst I respect your opinion and your right to wrong (
) the thing about that is the AB's profit is that it funds Super Rugby including the Crusaders and a good proportion of Rugby in general.Super Rugby including the Saders will not fund themsleves.
There's a balance to that though.. 4 tests in aickland this year is too many in my opinion.
The match at Albany stadium only had 30k didn't it? You're not sacrificing a lot of money to share games like that around the country
