Law trials and changes
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@bones said in Law trials and changes:
I mean, did the refs hate it and set out to make it a failure?
That's a great conspiracy angle... but worth looking into. It did seem at the start that any Captain's Referral would be given a cursory glance, and then ignored.
Later... they went the opposite direction - looked far too hard, found shit that wasn't in the scope of the actual Referral, and just confused matters to the point where nobody was happy with the outcome.
It does kinda look like a concerted effort to ignore it, then get rid of it. But... equally... Hanlon's Razor. -
Not confirmed by World Rugby, yet, but it looks like this is going to happen.
The first article below uses language that's a bit confusing (mixing up words like rule changes and trials), but it appears that World Rugby has decided to trial the 50-22 kick and the goal line dropout for 12 months from 1 August. The first rule was already trialled during Super AU, and the goal line dropout was trialled during both Super AU and Super Aotearoa.
According to the same article, a trial of the 20-minute red card rule has not been approved.
Sources said World Rugby’s law advisory group were in favour of the change to the red-card system but World Rugby powerbrokers were concerned the punishment was not enough deterrent for players making dangerous high contact.
France and England were key drivers in the decision to not modify the red card rules.
The timeline of the new rule changes will see the Wallabies play under a different set of laws against France than they will against New Zealand, South Africa and Argentina in The Rugby Championship.That's what you get if Stuff articles just copy and paste from Australian articles. Obviously, the All Blacks will also play under a different set of laws against Tonga and Fiji than during the RC.
Sanzaar is set to hold a meeting on Thursday night to discuss the rule changes.
Rugby Australia is expected to push for the 20-minute red card to continue through The Rugby Championship at the meeting, given it has widely been considered a success through the Super Rugby competitions.
While RA is comfortable with the changes given Australian players have become accustomed to the new rules, sources said New Zealand Rugby were not in favour of the changes.
NZR do not believe the rule – which rewards the defending team with a dropout when they hold the opposition up over the line rather than awarding a five-metre scrum – provides enough reward for the attacking team.Super Rugby Aotearoa also did not feature the 50-22 rule, which is almost identical in concept to the NRL’s 40-20 rule.
While Australian Super Rugby sides only utilised the rule on a handful of occasions, defending teams were forced to defend without one or both of their wingers in the defensive line through the middle part of the field.
The shift in defensive shape has opened up more space for attacking rugby when kicks may have otherwise been employed.
The rule changes were part of a push from RA chair Hamish McLennan to make the game more appealing to broadcasters when the game’s television rights were up for grabs.
From the second article:
All Blacks coach Ian Foster wants World Rugby to rethink its decision to ditch the experimental 20-minute red card rule as the game’s lawmakers launch global trials.
World Rugby has not formally announced the trials but among them will be the 50-22 kick, a goal line drop out, and Foster said another would be a change on how players can latch on to one another to reduce force in contact areas, aiming to improve player welfare.
Foster said the Sanzaar nations, comprised of New Zealand, Australia, Argentina and South Africa, were “pretty unanimous” in wanting to stick with the 20-minute red card trial.Foster indicated that up to five law changes will be trialled from August and hopes the red card trial is still adopted.
“I think we might go and ask again, but I’m not sure of the chances,” he added.There have been concerns throughout the game that the crackdown on high shots, in a bid to improve player welfare, has led to more red cards, as there is a smaller margin of error for the tackler, and it can compromise the quality of a match if a team is down to 14 players for most of the game.
However, World Rugby is concerned the rule might not be enough to deter players from making potentially high, dangerous contact, as it tries to combat the game's concussion issues.As for the other trials, such as the 50-22 and the goal line drop out instead of a five-metre scrum, which were inspired by the National Rugby League (NRL), Foster was less sure about the former.
The 50-22 law means that if a player kicks the ball from their own half, and it bounces into touch within the opposition's 22, the attacking team will get a lineout.
It was used in Super Rugby AU but not Super Rugby Aotearoa, so it will not be familiar for Kiwi players, although Foster said it hasn’t been implemented much in trials so far.
“The 50-22 rule is a little bit of a niggle because none of us have tried it apart from Australia. But it’s going to be there for the next 12 months, so we’ve just got to get stuck into it,” he said.
“The evidence from trials around the world are that it hasn’t had a massive amount of impact. Not many teams have been able to execute it well.
“The logic is sound because it’s maybe trying to get you have an extra defender in the back field, which can give you more attacking opportunities. We’re just going to have to be smart enough to adapt to it.” -
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@stargazer said in Law trials and changes:
@bovidae The NH nations always getting their way!
Ozzies too
Dave Rennie 'doesn't understand' ditching red card law trial
Australia's Dave Rennie has criticised the northern hemisphere after there were reports 20-minute red cards had been axed by World Rugby.
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This was on BBC. Some of it old news but the very last bit intrigues me
New law trials to be introduced
World Rugby also announced five welfare-based law trials would be adopted globally on 1 August.
They include 50:22, where if a team can kick from within their own half and get the ball to bounce inside their opponents' 22 then into touch, the kicking team will get the put-in at the line-out.
This has already been tested in Super Rugby AU and is designed to create more space in the field as players drop back to prevent the opposition using this tactic.
Other trials and amendments are goal-line drop-out, pre-bound pods of players, tightening the law relating to latching and sanctioning the lower limb clear-out.Anyone know any more?
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Here we are....
Welfare-focused breakdown law amendments approved for global trial
Pre-bound pods of players: Outlawing the practice of pods of three or more players being pre-bound prior to receiving the ball – the sanction will be a penalty kick.
Sanctioning the lower limb clear-out: Penalising players who target/drop their weight onto the lower limbs of a jackler – the sanction will be a penalty kick.
Tightening law relating to latching: One-player latch to be permitted, but this player has the same responsibilities as a first arriving player (i.e. must stay on feet, enter through the gate and not fall to the floor) – the sanction will be a penalty kick -
is 50:22 actually that hard to do? surely 40-22 or even make it a real challenge 22-22
im skeptical of the idea more open field is a welfare benefit, i think more open play is more likely to result in bombs leading to competitions in the air or kick returns getting a full head of speed before running into a front rower
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@crucial said in Law trials and changes:
Pre-bound pods of players: Outlawing the practice of pods of three or more players being pre-bound prior to receiving the ball – the sanction will be a penalty kick.
Why? As long as the two bound players aren't in front of the ball receiver/ carrier, what's the problem?
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@antipodean said in Law trials and changes:
@crucial said in Law trials and changes:
Pre-bound pods of players: Outlawing the practice of pods of three or more players being pre-bound prior to receiving the ball – the sanction will be a penalty kick.
Why? As long as the two bound players aren't in front of the ball receiver/ carrier, what's the problem?
yeah, not sure i get this one either, have pods like that lead to injuries?
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@kiwiwomble said in Law trials and changes:
@antipodean said in Law trials and changes:
@crucial said in Law trials and changes:
Pre-bound pods of players: Outlawing the practice of pods of three or more players being pre-bound prior to receiving the ball – the sanction will be a penalty kick.
Why? As long as the two bound players aren't in front of the ball receiver/ carrier, what's the problem?
yeah, not sure i get this one either, have pods like that lead to injuries?
My reading is that the old flying wedge law was too specific. This makes it easier the rule in.
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There is a game with less scrums and kick out from the goal line,and it’s league.Some of rugbys differences are being eroded .It’s not less scrums we need but quicker ,much too long taken since the referees have taken over setting them.
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I always go to the source: World Rugby. First hand info is better than second or third.
Welfare-focused rugby law trials to be implemented globally
World Rugby has announced welfare-focused initiatives within a package of law amendments that will be trialled globally in competitions that start after 1 August, 2021, reflecting the sport’s ongoing commitment to injury reduction at all levels.
Supporting the priority mission of head impact reduction and in line with the international federation’s six-point welfare action plan announced today, four of the five trials that will be implemented have an underlying focus on potential welfare advancements across the game.The trials include two that have been operational in pilot trial environments – the goal-line drop out, which has been seen in Super Rugby Trans- Ta$man and the Rainbow Cup – and the 50:22, which was most recently operational in Super Rugby AU. Both have the potential to increase space and decrease defensive line speed, which in turn could have welfare benefits.
Three trials focus specifically on reducing injury risk at the breakdown following detailed evaluation by a specialist Breakdown Working Group***. The first will see the introduction of sanctioning of clear-outs which target the lower limbs. The second will outlaw the practice of multi-player (three or more) pre-bound pods. The third area will tighten the definition of what is permissible in the practice of one-player latching.
View the education materials here >>
After a global trial period of one year, laws that are deemed successful in meeting the objective of increasing safety while enhancing the spectacle will be tabled for Council to determine whether they are adopted into law at its May 2022 meeting, a full year ahead of Rugby World Cup 2023 in France.
Welfare-focused law trials approved for global trial
- 50:22: This law trial is intended to create space via a tactical choice for players to drop out of the defensive line in order to prevent their opponents from kicking for touch, reducing impact of defensive line speed – operational in Super Rugby AU
- Goal-line drop out: This law trial is intended to reduce the number of scrums, reward good defence, encourage counter-attacking and increase the rate of ball in play – operational in Super Rugby AU, Super Rugby Aotearoa, Super Rugby Trans- Ta$man and the Rainbow Cup
Welfare-focused breakdown law amendments approved for global trial
- Pre-bound pods of players: Outlawing the practice of pods of three or more players being pre-bound prior to receiving the ball – the sanction will be a penalty kick
- Sanctioning the lower limb clear-out: Penalising players who target/drop their weight onto the lower limbs of a jackler – the sanction will be a penalty kick
- Tightening law relating to latching: One-player latch to be permitted, but this player has the same responsibilities as a first arriving player (i.e. must stay on feet, enter through gate and not fall to floor) – the sanction will be a penalty kick
Sevens law trials
- The Group approved a two-year extension of the trial whereby a team may nominate and use up to five replacements (this is in addition to substitutions to cover HIA, blood, injury or foul play incidents). The substitutions can be made on a rolling basis. In the event of extra-time, a sixth replacement can also be utilised
- The Group recommended to Council that in-goal assistant referees will no longer be permitted where there is a TMO present at a competition
In addition, the Executive Committee has endorsed a package of community law variations that aim to benefit welfare and accessibility. Recommended to Council for consideration in November, they aim to provide unions with law flexibility at a community level, including weight-banded matches, reduced tackle height and limitations to scrum and lineouts.
This is from that "education material" page:
Flying wedge
The trial
To sanction the three person pre-bound mini-scrum by redefining the flying wedge.
Primary intention
To reduce number of events where the ball carrier and multiple support players are in contact (latched) prior to contact, and to protect the tackler who can be faced with the combined force of three opposing players.
Links to law
New definition of ‘latched’
Amended definition of ‘flying wedge’
Deletion of definition of ‘cavalry charge’
Law 9.22Followed by video examples etc etc
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@trodthesod id also say less reasons for penalties, let teams come up with ways to defend things like pods rather than banning them, realise a dominant scrum having super front foot ball and the scrum that just been beaten being on the ground and therefor out of the game is enough reward...dont stop it for a penalty
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@trodthesod said in Law trials and changes:
There is a game with less scrums and kick out from the goal line,and it’s league.Some of rugbys differences are being eroded .It’s not less scrums we need but quicker ,much too long taken since the referees have taken over setting them.
I'm not laying that one on the refs, who are under "safety directions"
professional scrum coaches, and the evolution of the scrum from a restart to a way to generate penalties are the scourge
Maybe the free-kick for scrum infringements was the right idea? But i'm not really 100% on board with that after the 77th minute last night, that scrum was awesome and deserved winning the game. Perhaps we need to change the mindset to one of "deserved teh chance to win the game"
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@mariner4life do we think having a super dominant scrum deserves the right to direct points? the scrum is just a competition for the ball, surely winning the ball is the most you can expect from just winning the scrum
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@kiwiwomble said in Law trials and changes:
@mariner4life do we think having a super dominant scrum deserves the right to direct points? the scrum is just a competition for the ball, surely winning the ball is the most you can expect from just winning the scrum
Winning the ball, forward momentum and (if we're near the try line) the chance to push over and score a try.
Taking reset scrums back to the 5 yard line eliminates the opportunity to score pushover tries, which in my opinion is a step backwards.
Same question is whether a mis-timing at the tackle is worth points - penalties have to be meaningful, it's just not clear what that consequence should be.
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this just becomes a philosophical debate about rugby really.
In a game of fine margins and judgement calls, should errors in timing be worth points? I have never thought so.
But then i can see the point from teh other side. Not giving up points will make teams push the envelope more. And i don't want more yellow cards. Also, in a lot of top level games, actually having the ball can be a disadvantage. Where is the line drawn in a game already incredibly difficult to referee?
Would i have been happy for that last scrum to do not much more than give the French another opportunity to attack? yeah i guess so. Many many more people would disagree with me, especially those that see rugby as more than a running game.
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@nzzp and it inspires this negative play, actually playing for a penalty, we'd possibly see more stable scrums if there wasn't the same rewards for things going wrong
is there something to be said for something in between a free kick and a penalty, where you could kick for touch and get the feed, but cant choose to kick for goal
