Jones Vs Barnes ...
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Judged as a whole though I would consider it a better performance than the 2011 Final. Different result. So how much did we really learn?
2011 they changed the manner in which they played during the game to reduce errors. 2007 they were composed and their only failure was an inability to recognise that Barnes was a rabbit in the spotlight.
2011 the pressure would have been much greater - another four years, at home, with a chance for redemption. I'm amazed at how well they coped quite frankly.
In saying that, I certainly don't wish to diminish the good point you made about the cultural shift in the team.
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I agree 2004 was the year when we really started to change the culture, following the meeting Henry had with some of the senior ABs including Umaga, which he calls "the most important meeting of my career". The biggest positive from 2007 was that we retained the coaching setup which actually allowed us to take our learnings through to 2011 and 2015, which was a massive shift from previous WCs.
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Btw.
An article with Barnes talking about 07 would actually be quite interesting.
But it comes with the walrus editorialising, which is just too ridiculous for words to have an unhinged, bitter, and unbalanced figure of ridicule to be sermonising on balanced behaviour when things don't go your way.
Obviously the NZH focused equally on Barnes and Walrus, coz clicks.
So, did Barnes say much of interest? Asks a no longer bitter, slightly abashed, understanding nz rugby fan.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
Hang on, you do know that the Walrus is writing for a Pommy paper, not a Kiwi one
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@No-Quarter said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I agree 2004 was the year when we really started to change the culture, following the meeting Henry had with some of the senior ABs including Umaga, which he calls "the most important meeting of my career". The biggest positive from 2007 was that we retained the coaching setup which actually allowed us to take our learnings through to 2011 and 2015, which was a massive shift from previous WCs.
Holy shit NQ, are you actually an AB who pops on here to talk to us every now and again ? reading the above one would think you were part of the team.
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@barbarian said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
Oh totally. Barnes got off scott free from that game, hey. I didn't even know he was the one who refereed it until I read the article.
So now, in 2016, a mere 9 years later, it's the perfect time to right this hideous wrong. For too long Kiwis have remained silent when it came to this past trauma, but no longer! Take to the streets, my Trans- Ta$man brethren! Now is the time for retribution!
Totally missing the point.
McCaw and Henry amongst others have discussed the game and when they have done they've had the humility to at least admit their failings that led to that result.
Barnes continues to discuss the game and its aftermath - but never once has he admitted that was a sub par game from him. Hell I do not believe he even has had the stones to state specifically that the forward pass was missed.
He is happy to focus on the crap he copped in the media though and what a martyr that made him. Compared to Henry, Richie and Tew it was small fry.
In the minutes following the game I wanted a formal IRB statement, four years ago I would have settled for Barnes saying he had a poor game, at this point acknowledging he at least swallowed the whistle would go a long way.
His woeful refereeing performances are matched only by his self awareness. His silence let's scribes say crap like "apart from the forward pass he was excellent."
It's tough argument to make but perhaps if you can put me in touch with one of the talents on GAGR who put together those YouTube videos bemoaning every call after a Bledisloe I can commission them to create a series from that game that will make it clearer?
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@rotated said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
@nzzp said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
In the long run though, that's what has set up AB rugby. Play that game again, and I don't think you'd see the same mental weakness. So really,maybe we should be sending Wayne-O a box of beers to say thanks mate.
I know a lot of the fern haven't watched the game back but honestly the entire second half to me was an incredibly focused and cool headed performance given the circumstances, culminating in the Rodders try. The problem was the Michalak try came less than a minute after the kick off following that. It was a massive kick in the nuts and with 7 minutes on the clock and injuries mounting that's really when the panic kicked in.
Judged as a whole though I would consider it a better performance than the 2011 Final. Different result. So how much did we really learn?
I think we have a tendency to trace the current success back to that loss and to be honest I think the less cited post-3N purge in 2004 of the older players and a greater focus on culture got things cooking. It was the building blocks they put in place during 05-06 that helped them whether reappointment and poor returns in 08-09 against the Boks.
I've watched it a few times and as soon as Leonard came on (54th minute) we started to look panicky I reckon. Leonard who had previously providing spark and speed off the bench was scattery and rushed.
From my view he seemed to be feeling the pressure. Then Masoe who came on not too long after also had a couple of deer in the headlight moments.
The injuries were a setback, but we had the "cattle", we had opportunities but it just wasn't our night.
The forward pass meh.
As for other missed infringements, only one really sticks out, but the so called rest were not really that obvious IMO.
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Ignoring Jone's focus on 2007 so he could have a dig at NZ (yawn), the worst bit about the complete article was him sucking up to Barnes big time declaring him the world's best (no mention of Owens or Joubert at all).
Fact is that Barnes still has a tendency to make a howler decision in almost every test match even if the rest of his game is excellent. Owens rarely makes shockers, Joubert maybe one in every 6-7 matches.
Even with all of his experience I still find myself yelling at Barnes to get out of the way at times. His positioning can often show a lack of instinct of the game. Joubert probably has the best positioning play.
Barnes (like Glen Jackson) has been a project ref accelerated up the ranks and now he rates well because he is 'experienced'.
Barnes was the poster boy for trying to get younger refs into the game and Jackson the same for ex-players -
I wish I was as gracious as the posters saying it was a good thing really as it helped us shape the current insane winning era.
But I'm not. It still fks me off every time I think about it. We were by far the best team in 07, and it took a perfect storm of black swans to derail us, Barnes swallowing his whistle being a big part of that. We should have had a three-peat by now. Living over in the UK made it even worse. Grrr.
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Yeah the reffing sucked , but I think the team we had a few years later may have dealt with all that and found a way to win .
End of the day , almost every world cup there is a team that gets a raw deal with the refs in a big game , and maybe that was our turn ,
Winning the next 2 has probably allowed me to move on , it doesnt hurt as much anymore
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People are forgetting the 'French" factor though......
Struggling past Fiji in 1999 only to knock the ABs out....
Losing to Argentina in 2007 same as above....
Losing to the ABs.....then TONGA in 2011 but giving the ABs a massive scare in losing 8-7.Sure they got fucken destroyed in 2015 but as an AB fan there will always be that wariness when they're up in a knock out game.
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@jegga said in Jones Vs Barnes ...:
To be honest with all the awesome stuff that's happened since I struggle to give a fuck about that game anymore . I thought this thread was about the two fat drunk pommy rugby columnists having a public spat.
Now that would be interesting.
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@barbarian you've been on TSF for too long, its unAustralian to indulge in biting sarcasm!
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@jegga you mean those tolerant, patient, 'in the spirit of the game' well muscled manly men english rugby journalists dont you? They'd never write from the point of hypocracy would they?
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@nostrildamus no I mean the two walking advertisements for type two diabetes , alcoholism and a complete lack of journalistic integrity.
I'm suprised the herald and stuff haven't approached the trolls to do a weekly column yet. -
@jegga NZ Rugby News or whatever it was called put The Walrus in their team of writers for their monthly magazine about 10 years ago, I think he featured in 3 consecutive months before I expect the sub cancellations became too much for them.
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@taniwharugby yeah I remember that , I used to buy it occasionally but when I saw an article from the manatee comparing super rugby crowds to 6n crowds I stopped.
