Stadium of Canterbury
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@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@booboo Yes. And let's make it drastically under-sized, fit for fuck all and ugly as sin.
I'm not really understanding why you need a big stadium to sell out once a year. Less and less people are going to sporting events in NZ
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@Hooroo The regional population is predicted to more or less double by 2050. That makes it undersized. The budget was originally $500m. That shrunk to $475m around 18 months ago. Feasibility studies and beurocracy have further eaten into the $475m. Add in inflation and the fact that we are at least six months away from having something that can even be priced properly, and the project becomes less and less achievable and lessens in quality. Already a general design change in order to cut costs has done away with a planned upper concourse. There's no way in hell this thing isn't either shrinking yet again, or becoming yet more basic. This all makes it less than fit for purpose and potentially an eyesore.
But $470m or so can build us a Bankwest Stadium, with upgrades.
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@shark I think a lot of the cost is ground improvement work, looking at the uncovered options. That changes the equation somewhat - if you start with the thick end of $200M in the ground (based on the options presented), then the differentials between small/large/roofed/nonroofed/luxury change somewhat.
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Townsville's new stadium is very cool
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@mofitzy_ said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Just noticed the successful womens world cup 2023 bid (joint Aus/NZ) in includes:
"Christchurch Stadium, capacity: 22,556"
So it will be completed by 2023? Or will they just put up additional stands at Rugby League Park?
i very much doubt it can be built for 2023 unless theyre about to start very shorty
25-30k is more than enough as far as im concerned, worked on the rebuild (including the current stadium) and lived in chch for a number of years, worked on the build of FB before that
people seem t forget, the permanent seats for FB is only like 18,500, the rest are the temp stands at either end, thats why its a nice little design, can get to the +30k when they get an AB test every other year but didn't need the same outlay for every other game, it also focus most of the crowd to the main stand so it looks more full on tv which makes it looks popular which attracts the casual fan
lets also not forget, the final published cost was $220m...but there were lost of reports at the time of costs being deferred (such as claims by contractors) which suggested the total build including land was closer to $300m , add a decade to that and the general cost of building going up in chch and $500m doesn't seems stretch for the same thing
i now work in aus and i dont think it fair to compare cost across countries, the construction industry is so much bigger over here, more competition means things get done cheaper, pretty simple. Shit get built faster here too, first job i worked on was "Vic one" a 78 story apartment building, it was on something like floor 35 when i started and they topped out less that two years later...the seven story hotel at chch airport has taken something like 4 years to build....
you have to incude concerts in the business case for the simple reason thats is more events bringing money in and if it needs a roof to get those concerts then so be it
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- FBS is not a "nice little design". It's a very basic plastic box. It's the stadium equivalent of building to residential code minimums ie the worst possible building spec that can be built for XYZ budget.
- Christchurch is three to four times the size of Dunedin by population, possibly more if you're taking 'greater Christchurch' ie inc the satellite towns. Projected population was 750k by 2050. A stadium the same size as Dunedin's is badly under-equipped.
- We don't need a roof. A roof is only essential to pick up the occasional gig that will otherwise go to Dunedin. And even without a roof, why does the artist care about spectator comfort if they can get another 10,000 ticket sales?
- For the same money - now down to only $475m btw - we could have a really cool, very comfortable, feature-rich open air stadium.
- Already the shrinking budget - add in inflation and rising costs over a four year design and build projection - has seen the demise of a second tier concourse. Anyone who doesn't expect further down-sizing or down-spec'ing is dreaming. And it'll be veeeery basic to look at which for a large building in the middle of a rebuilt CBD whixh contains some cool buildings and developments is a gross embarrassment.
Mark my words. When this fucking ridiculous little 'MUA' is complete, probably behind schedule and over- budget despite being a dump, there will be an uproar. If not immediately then shortly afterwards when it's limitations become blatantly obvious.
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@mofitzy_ said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Just noticed the successful womens world cup 2023 bid (joint Aus/NZ) in includes:
"Christchurch Stadium, capacity: 22,556"
So it will be completed by 2023? Or will they just put up additional stands at Rugby League Park?
It's embarrassing that Christchurch Stadium is being used. I don't want it seen as the face of my city on such a large international stage.
This is exactly the kind of event we should be able to capitalise on. If we had a great new 40,000 seat open air stadium by 2023 we'd get bigger games, more cashed-up international visitors etc.
Fucking short-sighted councillors and politicians who just want to pander to fucking Ed Sheeran fans.
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Yeah and CHCH was not doing so great even selling out for ABs tests, so a huge stadium might not be the best idea!
Only Italy but still. Also these two "Before reconstruction, Christchurch failed to reach its 36,000 capacity for Tri-Nations tests against South Africa in 2007 and Australia the year before." pretty shit effort by the Cantabs etc
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/2517802/Poor-ticket-sales-threaten-Christchurch-tests
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@Godder said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark I repeat earlier comments - the roof was requested by Canterbury Rugby who will be the main tenant. Also, if we were pandering to Ed Sheeran fans, it would be 40,000 capacity since we could sell that out for Ed.
So you think Canterbury Rugby's desires should be the ultimate consideration? Put before issues like future proofing, the standard of roofed stadia etc? No way they should. OF COURSE the Crusaders and Canterbury would want a roof and 20k to 25k seats as it suits their needs.
40,000 with a roof isn't/wasn't an option for $475m.
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@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@Godder said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark I repeat earlier comments - the roof was requested by Canterbury Rugby who will be the main tenant. Also, if we were pandering to Ed Sheeran fans, it would be 40,000 capacity since we could sell that out for Ed.
So you think Canterbury Rugby's desires should be the ultimate consideration? Put before issues like future proofing, the standard of roofed stadia etc? No way they should. OF COURSE the Crusaders and Canterbury would want a roof and 20k to 25k seats as it suits their needs.
40,000 with a roof isn't/wasn't an option for $475m.
Yes, because otherwise they may not use it, and it becomes even more of a white elephant.
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@shark so let me get this straight, you don’t think they should do what Canterbury rugby want or concert promoters or the vast majority of the people in Christchurch ie have a roof...even though they would use it 90% of the time? And we should build a huge stadium that will only be full 3 or 4 times every 12 years just because “chRiStcHurCh iS biG”
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@Godder said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@Godder said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark I repeat earlier comments - the roof was requested by Canterbury Rugby who will be the main tenant. Also, if we were pandering to Ed Sheeran fans, it would be 40,000 capacity since we could sell that out for Ed.
So you think Canterbury Rugby's desires should be the ultimate consideration? Put before issues like future proofing, the standard of roofed stadia etc? No way they should. OF COURSE the Crusaders and Canterbury would want a roof and 20k to 25k seats as it suits their needs.
40,000 with a roof isn't/wasn't an option for $475m.
Yes, because otherwise they may not use it, and it becomes even more of a white elephant.
They'll use whatever gets built.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark so let me get this straight, you don’t think they should do what Canterbury rugby want or concert promoters ie have a roof...even though they would use it 90% of the time? And we should build a huge stadium that will only be full 3 or 4 times every 12 years just because “chRiStcHurCh iS biG”
You're kind of onto it, but not quite getting it.
$475m isn't enough to build a well equipped, roofed stadium with any sort of interesting design that can seat up to 30,000. Or do you think it is? Because you've already been proven wrong given a second tier concourse has already been removed to save cost.
With the possibility of a quality indoor stadium seating up to 30,000 removed, and it has been, the options are a) shrink the capacity even further b) maintain 30k capacity but build an even more basic design or c) build an open stadium which for the same money could seat 40,000 if required (for, let's say, a FIFA women's World Cup) and have many of the features expected of a modern stadium (deep covered stands, enclosed concourses across multiple levels, numerous concession windows, entertainment attached, great screens etc etc). A larger stadium doesn't need to be used in its entirety for a rugby game so the cost of opening it right up isn't a valid issue, but capacity is there if and when needed.
The obsession with a roof at all costs is mind boggling.
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@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
Further, it's not at all outside the realm of possibility now that Australia and NZ could host a FIFA World Cup, or New Zealand another RWC. How many of those games will a crappy 25,000 seat MUA get?
Nz is tiny on the world stage, if Aus got a football World Cup auckland would be the only city to get any slightly big games, any other stadiums would only get Minows so a 30k stadium would be fine
But we’re not going to get fifa world cups...so we should build something that might get close to breaking even each year...so concerts and rugby
Actually, the fifa World Cup is held in our winter...so a roof would probably make it more attractive seeing we wouldn’t fill the stand from local support and so would have to rely even more heavily on tourists
