Stadium of Canterbury
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$301m is to be spent on 13 new cycleways. The CCC is a fucking Muppet show lunatic asylum. They actually believe this will encourage people to cycle to work. I'm all for cutting down emissions, but this is a waste of money of biblical proportions. How's this relate to the stadium? Well I'm not going to suggest the $301m be thrown at it, but I am going to suggest $50m should be as that's probably what'll be needed to get it built now to spec, and the other $250m goes into light rail links running from high density suburbs past a handful of major facilities and directly into the centre of the four avenues.
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@shark fair enough a bit more distribution of funds would be good....but, im not sure its so much a case of building cycleways to encourage people to cycle...but more a response to so many people in chch already cycling, i use to bike to work in chch and there was always a steady streams of people and that was before alot of the rebuild of the CBD
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@bovidae last i heard the surrounding councils were still out, anecdotally, they weren't consulted on what they would like to see as you might expect if they were going to chip in...but also CCC has kind of gone ahead without them so they're probably thinking. great, get the benefit without having to pay...poorly handled all around
I have family in wider canterbury and i know they all signed those petitions re the size and roof etc, did not appreciated when i asked if they were paying...its all fucked up
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@kiwiwomble I don't see many people biking to work. It's that simple.
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@shark as I say, I use too and there were hundreds of others when I did, and that’s just along the route I took
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@kiwiwomble I live here. I work within the four avenues and I'm out and about on the road all day. I don't see many cyclists. Certainly not enough to warrant half a billion dollars worth of cycleways (assuming what's already been spent is somewhere up towards $200m).
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@kiwiwomble said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark as I say, I use too and there were hundreds of others when I did, and that’s just along the route I took
Hang on, you used to see HUNDREDS of others as you cycled in? Were they all on 10 speeds? I suspect they carried on in a large pack up into the hills and you mistook commuters for racing cyclists.
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@shark nope, my office in the cbd alone had a bike cage with 50 of spots and most full, don’t know what to tell ya, maybe you notice it more if you do it rather than driving past
I’ll generally always be in a stream of cyclists, corner of Colombo and broughm would have 10-15 waiting for a light
I think you may have mistaken, commuters at my work would still wear full kit
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@shark said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@kiwiwomble I don't see many people biking to work. It's that simple.
Build it and they will come?
Trouble is that no one really knows the uptake until it is built. Some cities have usage well above expectations, some well below.
As far as places like Wellington go it is a very small but vocal group that try to dominate council thinking. Wellington is a terrible place for cycling with or without infrastructure. Weather and geography being the main barriers to take up.
I don't know the situation in Chch that well but I assume that those barriers are no worse than say London. Boris' cycleways are a complete balls up as they were done half arsed using paint. They don't link up and in some places are more dangerous than what was already there. However, they are well used. The demand is there and many people are happy for some of the pain points in the roads to be taken away. It is all about opening up the possibility to deeper layers of the community than the lycra boys. Bonus points if it calms down the behaviour of some of those twats as well.
I know that I wouldn't have cycled to work in London without the cycleways as they gave me the ability to plot a safe(ish) route.Compared to roading for vehicles those costs you quote are about one roundabouts worth. I'd say let them do it. If it works then you add another dimension to the livability of your city. As a visitor it is a shit place to drive around. Any improvement is just that.
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@shark bikes are a great option in Christchurch as it's so flat, the only issue is some tough winters. That said, cycleways are great - but expensive cycleways are painful. There's often a lot of costs loaded onto them that aren't really directly related to the cycleway.
But - build a good network, and people will use it. But damn, do it fast, do it cheaply, and get cyclists involved in the actual design.
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@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@shark bikes are a great option in Christchurch as it's so flat, the only issue is some tough winters. That said, cycleways are great - but expensive cycleways are painful. There's often a lot of costs loaded onto them that aren't really directly related to the cycleway.
But - build a good network, and people will use it. But damn, do it fast, do it cheaply, and get cyclists involved in the actual design.
As someone who is probably a 'next tier down' cyclist ( ie not a full on 'aggressive'with the gear and ability to go as fast as the cars, but skilled enough to mix it a bit and hold my own), here are some random thoughts.
- In narrow areas - a dedicated cycle path that is illegal for cars to enter or park on. NO loading zones. For less confident cyclist this would also need a physical curb or barrier.
- The other way is to widen the curb and footpath to a shared pathway for cyclists and pedestrians. This is better for vehicle flow and safety (car on cyclist is usually worse than cyclist on pedestrian). However, when designed you still need to workout which solution is best in that particular stretch. Sometimes you lose more road to widen the curb than you would to put in a one metre lane. Some places it is impracticable for residents and businesses to lose parking.
- Where you have plenty of room then a dedicated bike path (ie alongside an expressway) BUT is needs to stay maintained as bikes don't sweep the road in the same way cars do and as soon as the path gets dirty/gritty etc riders will stop using it.
- If you can plot a route through parks then do so.
- Underpasses are expensive in themselves but can save lots in the rest of the design as they eliminate the danger spot right at the source instead of convoluted systems of crossings and lights.
- Most important though is the attitude of everybody. Drivers, cyclists and pedestrians all have to work together and not claim 'their rights' all the time.
- Same goes for policing. You often end up with places where it is much much safer for a cyclist to 'anticipate' a light change and get a start before being jammed by a truck or bus. I'll admit that this doesn't apply as much to E-bikes that can boost off the line although E-vehicles will soon negate that advantage.
- E-bikes are also a big game changer as more people can ride to work without cranking up a sweat and needing to shower and change.
The best thing by far is to use parks as much as possible. Less impact on roads, more enjoyable ride for more people, more ability for cyclists to go at their own pace.
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@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
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@rapido said in Stadium of Canterbury:
@machpants said in Stadium of Canterbury:
It's finished now, right? Cos fuck me this thread had gone on forever!
Yip, finished, includes a velodrome track around the rugby field by the sounds of it. Like old school Okara Park and Rugby Park.
Good. The one thing I've never liked about rugby grounds is being able to see the players.
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@antipodean i think you were being sarcastic...but you can be TOO close
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@nzzp i was honestly going to come here and wind up Shark by suggesting, with the input costs of construction through the roof, for their budget Christchurch is getting a grass embankment and a couple of pop-ups from Bunnings.
Old school cool
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@nzzp said in Stadium of Canterbury:
That's stunning incompetence from the council. The stadium should've been built by now.
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its time to cut their cloth....work out what they can build for their budget...what they can get their contractor to commit too, maybe its the same thing without a roof....maybe it has to go back to having to build individual stands over time
