Aussie Pro Rugby
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@rembrandt said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@crucial said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@no-quarter said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Secondly, another issue I have is people are making the argument that just because Folau may hold some unpopular beliefs, he should self-police himself and not express them. I just could not disagree with that more. People being free to express their unpopular ideas is what has led to some of the biggest social changes.
There is a big difference between expressing a belief based on fact and a belief based on belief.
I could not agree more with your last sentence but the lead up to it is fallacious.I think facts can arguably be more controversial than beliefs.
What if Israel was a social scientist and put a post up evidencing the differences in iq between racial groups?
Suddenly everyone would be wishing he was just a crazy christian
I think that is a very different situation.
For a start that's not a hypothetical question because it has happened. In 1994 a social scientist released a book called The Bell Curve which said that different races do have different IQ's which are caused by differences in genetics. Other social scientists criticised the book and the methodology employed in the book by arguing that the (undeniable) differences in results on IQ tests between "races "are a result of cultural, educational and economic factors. In other words the argument boiled down to whether the differences that can be seen are caused by genetics, or are merely a correlation which is better explained by other factors. I understand that there isn't really a consensus on the question.
The bigger point though, is that your scenario represents a question that is in principle answerable by arguments based on empirical findings. Folau saying that gay people will go to hell is not something that is knowable to be true or false by any possible means. The only way possible way of knowing whether it is true or not is by dying and finding out. It cannot be refuted or argued against using arguments based on any knowledge that a human can have.
I should add as an interesting aside that I was taught at uni by Professor Flynn who was one of the chief proponents of the idea (amongst other things) that differences in IQ test results showed a correlative rather than a causative effect (The Flynn Effect). He admitted in class that had his research indicated the opposite result he did not know if he would have published his findings due to the harm it would have caused. Therefore, a cynic might question whether we can take his findings seriously - he effectively admitted that he might well be lying about what he found. He says he isn't lying, but then that is what he would say even if he was lying!
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@siam said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@damo Sam Harrris battling through this at the moment eh Damo?
Is he? I haven't read any Sam Harris for years. What is he saying these days?
I felt he went off the deep end a few years ago with some of his anti-islamic rhetoric so I stopped paying attention to him. I think he was the weakest of the four horsemen.
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@damo podcasting about his and Charles Murray reputations being besmirched. Mostly sticking up for objective and fact based discourse.
I do like his tenacity in exposing identity politics, and his religion denouncement can become staid but he generally talks good sense -
@damo Thats interesting, I'll gave to look into the Flynn effect. I'm only partially aware of the bell curve mainly through Harris's recent interactions with Murray as well as through some of Stefan Molyneux's videos. Plan to read Murray's book at some point this year, the violent reaction to academic research however does concern me especially when people go down the 'facts are racist' route.
My point here is similar but from a different point of view. As Folau can't prove he is correct, especially to those who don't believe in heaven/hell it is then far easier to ignore him and claim he is just another 'crazy' christian just as you would a screaming homeless man with a 'hail the apocalypse' sign. Facts, figures and analysis are much harder to deal with.... but anyway I think we've trailed waaaaay off the aussie rugby subject..
Tah's going well, where's that bloke who used to always say 'this is our year' before disappearing from the forum at the later stages of the comp?
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@rembrandt said in Aussie Rugby in general:
As Folau can't prove he is correct,especially to those who don't believe in heaven/hellto anyone, in the same way as he can't prove the existence of Santa Claus or the Easter BunnyFixed
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Parody: Folau and Pocock square off in tense confrontation
Israel Folau and David Pocock have squared off in a tense exchange in a Hooters car park on the outskirts of Sydney.
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@rembrandt said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@damo Thats interesting, I'll gave to look into the Flynn effect. I'm only partially aware of the bell curve mainly through Harris's recent interactions with Murray as well as through some of Stefan Molyneux's videos. Plan to read Murray's book at some point this year, the violent reaction to academic research however does concern me especially when people go down the 'facts are racist' route.
My point here is similar but from a different point of view. As Folau can't prove he is correct, especially to those who don't believe in heaven/hell it is then far easier to ignore him and claim he is just another 'crazy' christian just as you would a screaming homeless man with a 'hail the apocalypse' sign. Facts, figures and analysis are much harder to deal with.... but anyway I think we've trailed waaaaay off the aussie rugby subject..
Tah's going well, where's that bloke who used to always say 'this is our year' before disappearing from the forum at the later stages of the comp?
We might be off topic, but surely it's better than discussing the actual state of Aussie rugby. That's just too depressing a subject at the moment.
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