Aussie Pro Rugby
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
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The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.Therefore, am I massively overstating the problem?
Because really that level of regular high performance is down to depth, and despite shoring up parts of the U20 pathway there isn't much else in the cupboard. We are - again - building a talent pathway based on a bunch of very narrow channels and that won't improve our community engagement or wider support.
No wider support is less kids in the system is less milk is less cream is less performance.
Yes we hammered the ABs in Perth but got blanked in Auckland and have started losing to Wales. WALES ffs - a team we can pull wins out of our arses for.
In 2 years - if the Super Rugby squads can stabilise - maybe we're talking about the end of Cheika's reign as the bottom.
However, I'm always wary of RA being able to find a new way to punch through the floor.
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@mariner4life said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
come on mate, that's massively over-stating the problem.
The top Wallaby 23, in terms of talent, would have been good enough to challenge properly for this tournament, given a smart coach to get the best out of them. That is not something a tier 2 nation could say.
The coaches and selectors actually hampered the players as far as i can tell. Add in one of your premier backs having a complete fucking meltdown on social media, and you end up where you did.
The problem your incoming coach is going to have is, a lot of the top-end talent is not going to be there next year.
I agree with this. This was not a crap Wallaby team - it has underperformed over a long stretch thanks to many factors outside of the player ability alone - which set the expectations for this tournament, which in the end, were largely met. I think if you wound the clock back 3yrs with this group and had a solid coaching structure in place, you'd expect a SF appearance as your baseline.
The issue is really that this team has talent in spite of all the issues in RA. I got a pretty good insight to the Tahs over the last few years, and the way they were coached and managed was a debacle. Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
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@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@Nepia said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I don't care about him saying anti-establishment things, and pushing buttons etc, that's all fine, but he just straight up says dumb shit sometimes (all well and good for us lot on the Fern but not so much when you're supposed to be providing expert commentary on the box).
His audience isn't Kiwi rugby fans. His audience isn't even Aussie rugby fans, they'll be watching no matter what. His audience is casual Aussie sports fans
He's not an expert commentator he's a cheerleader. He plays the part well.
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Yes we hammered the ABs in Perth but got blanked in Auckland and have started losing to Wales. WALES ffs - a team we can pull wins out of our arses for.
Hey, that's the -up-until-very-recently-#1-side-in-the-world Wales you're talking about
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@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
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@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@jegga said in Aussie Rugby in general:
I doubt many casual sports fans in Australia bother to watch the wallabies anymore. Hell I bet many dedicated rugby fans do
Maybe. That doesn't change my point.
His job description is very different than someone like Richard Turner in NZ
Who would be his equivalent here? Stevenson?
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He's a comments man. So Marshall
But I don't think he's in the A team anymore? So someone like Turner is about right
Edit - or are you talking in terms of cheerleading? Stevenson fan boys over players but I think he is different again. Our market doesn't need a Kearns because rugby is the no1 sport
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@voodoo said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Really selfish behaviours, poor structures, no forward-thinking, and a lack of accountability, all adding up to give the players zero chance to succeed.
So, basically the same as the last two decades?
🤢
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Let's remember for a minute that the Brumbies - our most successful professional team - have often been successful in spite of the coach, administration, or national leadership.
They're are deep cultural issues in Aussie Rugby based on the political farce/pissing contest that many of the fish heads decide is best for the game.
Can it be fixed? Sure.
Burn down the schools competition and start again with a Junior clubs structure that works.
Restructure Premier Club Rugby to sit under NRC properly.
Find a way for Suburban Rugby to contribute to the pyramid and receive the benefits.
Once you've overcome those particular impossibilities, we will be heading in the right direction. -
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Let's remember for a minute that the Brumbies - our most successful professional team - have often been successful in spite of the coach, administration, or national leadership.
They're are deep cultural issues in Aussie Rugby based on the political farce/pissing contest that many of the fish heads decide is best for the game.
Can it be fixed? Sure.
Burn down the schools competition and start again with a Junior clubs structure that works.
Restructure Premier Club Rugby to sit under NRC properly.
Find a way for Suburban Rugby to contribute to the pyramid and receive the benefits.
Once you've overcome those particular impossibilities, we will be heading in the right direction.School boy rugby works in New Zealand. The problem in Australia is the multitude of competitions all ring fenced by self serving old boys.
Premier Club Rugby should've been enhanced to provide the NRC. But that's not going to be the pathway in the future; it's about schools -> academies -> SR -> Test.
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@Duluth said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
Restructure Premier Club Rugby to sit under NRC properly.
Has the NRC helped at all?
Certainly in terms of answering questions about a few players and giving exposure to others in order to get contracts at Super teams. That is a positive.
But its a 2 month comp jammed in at the end of the Sydney/Brisbane Premier Club seasons. A couple of years back, the Western Sydney team (before they got booted) was mostly made up of the 2 clubs who contested the Sydney Grand Final, so those guys weren't available week 1.
Sydney Premier Rugby is enjoying an upswell on the back of the Tahs being shit - its an either/or for those people brought up in club land. For those of us who aren't Sydneysiders and therefore don't give a fuck about those teams, its confusing and weird.
@antipodean said in Aussie Rugby in general:
School boy rugby works in New Zealand. The problem in Australia is the multitude of competitions all ring fenced by self serving old boys.
Not to mention the club v school conflict.
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@NTA said in Aussie Rugby in general:
@rotated said in Aussie Rugby in general:
If the conclusion is that it wasn't a disaster then you may as well pack up and call it a day.
The broader discussion is about whether Australian Rugby still can be considered - even by itself - a Tier 1 Nation given the last 2 decades of decline.
So, yes.
Really, Tier 2? That'll be the only Tier 2 country to defeat the ABs this year (EVER) and by a bloody good margin, red card notwithsatnding. Wallabies can do it but not with a coach whos ideas are set in stone and based on some mythical pure Ozzie way, refuses to work collegiately, and at the same time as being a coach who doesn't analyse opposition and has the biggest tinfoil hat attitude this side of Trump.
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Who is leaving - Foley, Lealiifano, Cooper, Kepu, Kerevi, Genia, Latu, Arnold, Coleman, Pocock??
A new coach is going to need to make some investment in young players and sacrifice short term results
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@Machpants said in Aussie Rugby in general:
red card notwithsatnding.
Uh, but its WITHstanding. Look at subsequent efforts.
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@dK said in Aussie Rugby in general:
A new coach is going to need to make some investment in young players and sacrifice short term results
Last 2 decades.
In all seriousness: can anyone here honestly say we'll have 30 players - 2 in each position - ready to go for Test Season 2020, with any thought of comfortable victory? Or a credible performance?
Our system is built on schoolboy bullies getting through in shit competitions and occasionally making the next step. We'll still only ever have about 17 good Test players with a few extras hoping to run the clock down in the last 20 minutes with this setup.
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It's mixed though, isn't it Nick?
I reckon we've got six test standard props, for example - AAA, Sio, Slipper, Tupou, Robertson and HJH.
But hooker and fly-half are looking pretty bare.
I don't think our talent stocks are the issue at the moment. They are better than they have been in quite a while IMO, even if we're losing some of our more experienced players.
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Life after Cheika: The bolters to make first Wallabies team of 2020
