Jimmy Gopperth
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@ACT-Crusader I did say it was Wiki
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@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@gollum yeah i think so. It was s Schmidt choice before he moved to the Ireland gig. Local hero Madigan was supposed to step up with jimmy providing bench support. Turned out Jimmy was a tad better than Madigan and the roles were reversed. Leinster fans, some of them, just had it in for him after that. I went to a few Leinster games when I was living in Dublin and there was some fair shit thrown jimmys way.
Another reason why Ireland are my hatiest team
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@TeWaio said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@gollum yeah i think so. It was s Schmidt choice before he moved to the Ireland gig. Local hero Madigan was supposed to step up with jimmy providing bench support. Turned out Jimmy was a tad better than Madigan and the roles were reversed. Leinster fans, some of them, just had it in for him after that. I went to a few Leinster games when I was living in Dublin and there was some fair shit thrown jimmys way.
Another reason why Ireland are my hatiest team
Reason #367(and counting ) for me, how about you.
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Almost certain Gopperth played in the 2005 probables vs possibles game?
Always thought he was pretty average and should have been moved past by the Canes earlier but it's mighty impressive to have a run at the not-quite-the-top-but-the-top-the-rung-below for this long despite his limitations.
You look at guys like Donald and Brett with similar limitations and they couldn't be difference makers up north.
Evans could but he was an actual talent.
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@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@gollum yeah i think so. It was s Schmidt choice before he moved to the Ireland gig. Local hero Madigan was supposed to step up with jimmy providing bench support. Turned out Jimmy was a tad better than Madigan and the roles were reversed. Leinster fans, some of them, just had it in for him after that. I went to a few Leinster games when I was living in Dublin and there was some fair shit thrown jimmys way.
You're correct in that Madigan was supposed to be the Leinster no1 but Matt O'Connor had other ideas. Going against the IRFU, Matt O'Connor didn't last long before he got the sack.
Leinster fans didn't take to Gopperth because he was - how should I describe it - a bit robotic. I don't think he was treated badly though.
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I think Madigan was one of the most over-rated players for a while there. He had one very good Pro 12 season, and after that he was seen as the next big thing. It never materialised, but Leinster fans were still clinging to the dream when Gopperth arrived. Interestingly the next big flyhalf-hope for Leinster is also Kiwi-born (Joey Carbery)...but I'll be fair and point out to Irish parents.
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@rotated said in Jimmy Gopperth:
Almost certain Gopperth played in the 2005 probables vs possibles game?
Always thought he was pretty average and should have been moved past by the Canes earlier but it's mighty impressive to have a run at the not-quite-the-top-but-the-top-the-rung-below for this long despite his limitations.
You look at guys like Donald and Brett with similar limitations and they couldn't be difference makers up north.
Evans could but he was an actual talent.
I do recall him getting a run in that game. That was a cast of thousands and I remember on the fern, back when the masses would fire up about selections, there was plenty of "outrage" at some of the players that made it. Here are the team lists
Probables
Anesi, Howlett, Laulala, Mapusua, Sivivatu, Evans, Kelleher, Bates (c), Newby, Lauaki, A Williams, Ryan, Johnstone, Witcombe, WoodcockBench players used - So'oialo, Mehrtens, Mika, Dermody, Cowan
Possibles
Atiga, Hamilton, Smith, Nonu, Ward, Donald, Devine, N Williams, Blackie, Masoe, O'Neill, Donnelly, Afoa, Hore (c), TaumoepeauBench players used - Tu'ipolotu, Gopperth, Nutbrown, B Williams, Kopelani
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@rotated said in Jimmy Gopperth:
Almost certain Gopperth played in the 2005 probables vs possibles game?
Always thought he was pretty average and should have been moved past by the Canes earlier but it's mighty impressive to have a run at the not-quite-the-top-but-the-top-the-rung-below for this long despite his limitations.
You look at guys like Donald and Brett with similar limitations and they couldn't be difference makers up north.
Evans could but he was an actual talent.
Yeah, Donald is a Saint on here but he was woeful at Bath, in contrast the far more maligned Gopperth & Glen Jackson have been 2 of the top first fives in the Prem during their time. Heaviliy in demand & really well paid - thats a pretty solid guide to how well guys are going.
Folks will try make that a dig at the prem, but in that case why was Donald not able to impose himself? Piri was shithouse too, but lets face it, he was only in it to sample the different countries flavours of KFC.
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@gollum One of the U.K press called David Howell the best out half in Europe in about 2008 . I never saw him play there but that's pretty high praise for someone who didn't make it further than nza .
I didn't realise Donald didn't go that well in the Nh . -
I remember someone (Billy Tell? Stargazer?) warning us not to expect much from Donald's NZ return because he hadn't done well up north but then he came back and was awesome for the Chiefs (when fit).
Seems like Gopperth's style of play just really suits NH rugby, while Donald's didn't? And the opposite was true at Super level?
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@jegga said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@gollum One of the U.K press called David Howell the best out half in Europe in about 2008 . I never saw him play there but that's pretty high praise for someone who didn't make it further than nza .
I didn't realise Donald didn't go that well in the Nh .Who? I genuinely haven't heard of him
Players performances after moving north can be fairly hard to predict. Don't think that anyone would argue that Super Rugby is a higher level, but some of the demands are different.
Donald obviously an example of someone who was pretty underwhelming, where as guys like Waldrom have had a ball up here. Follow London Irish myself and imports from NZ have ranged from the fairly poor (Chris Noakes), to solid but not certainly not stand out (B Franks, Bryn Evans, Maitland, Tikoirotuma) to outstanding (Dermody, Mapusua, S Tagicakibau)
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@Margin_Walker David Holwell
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Ah, of course. Cheers. Don't think he ever made that much of an impression, although I guess people write all sorts in the press from the last televised game.
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@jegga said in Jimmy Gopperth:
I didn't realise Donald didn't go that well in the Nh .
It was odd as he should have been ideal great defender, very good goal kicker, able to cover 12. He had all the makings of a solid Prem player, but they had moved towards a more attacking backline & he just couldn't set the backline away, stifled a lot of attack.
I think there is probably an element of the way the ball is recyled north v south. In the north the way the breakdown is reff'd taking it to the line & getting tackled can totally kill an attack as the ref's allow the ball to be contested (ie slowed down) more, In super rugby you take it to the line & get tackled the 9 has the ball away half a second later.
So Donalds "strength" in super rugby killed the backplay in the Prem.
George Ford in contrast (baths next 10) is basically Cruden.
Didn't help that Donald was fat as a house too -
I was a fat-arse at Bath admits Stephen Donald
Stephen Donald outdid Warren Gatland in the home hero stakes in Hamilton, leaving the field to a standing ovation after guiding the Chiefs to an impressive 40-7 victory over Wales. But after the 2011 World Cup final matchwinner ruined Gatland’s homecoming he admitted he had lacked motivation during...
“But I struggled in the Premiership, it simply wasn’t my style of rugby. To be fair I came over after we’d won the World Cup and found myself thrown into the English winter. “At times I battled for motivation. That’s probably why I put on about 10kgs and was a bit of a fat-arse over there.”
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@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
I think Madigan was one of the most over-rated players for a while there. He had one very good Pro 12 season, and after that he was seen as the next big thing. It never materialised, but Leinster fans were still clinging to the dream when Gopperth arrived. Interestingly the next big flyhalf-hope for Leinster is also Kiwi-born (Joey Carbery)...but I'll be fair and point out to Irish parents.
Yeah Madigan is overrated. He is a 90% kicker, a good runner, has a good pass etc but like a lot of young players like that, he doesn't have the brain to be a top class 10. He is doing well in France now which is his level.
Carbery is a terrific talent who has made a few mistakes in his 2 games but genuinely looks a level above Paddy Jackson already and probably Sexton too. Moved to Ireland when he was 12 so thanks to NZ for his early development but hands off! lol
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@profitius said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
I think Madigan was one of the most over-rated players for a while there. He had one very good Pro 12 season, and after that he was seen as the next big thing. It never materialised, but Leinster fans were still clinging to the dream when Gopperth arrived. Interestingly the next big flyhalf-hope for Leinster is also Kiwi-born (Joey Carbery)...but I'll be fair and point out to Irish parents.
Yeah Madigan is overrated. He is a 90% kicker, a good runner, has a good pass etc but like a lot of young players like that, he doesn't have the brain to be a top class 10. He is doing well in France now which is his level.
Carbery is a terrific talent who has made a few mistakes in his 2 games but genuinely looks a level above Paddy Jackson already and probably Sexton too. Moved to Ireland when he was 12 so thanks to NZ for his early development but hands off! lol
I was wondering when Carberry's name was going to come up in discussion and the land of his birth. I didn't know his parents were Irish, but just thought the father moved here for work to Athy when young Joey was 12. Did the usual mix of sports then discovered best at rugby and ended up moving to Blackrock College to finish his schooling and develop his talent. He's only in second year Academy, so he's doing well to start his third league game on the trot.
If the Nucifora edict about investment in academy structures and better monitoring of lower club talent and development of younger players instead of buying ' furriners', starts to bear fruit, the next few years will be interesting.
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@Margin_Walker It was that arseclown Barnes that said it a fair old while ago now though.
David Holwell, the former Wellington Hurricane now a Leinster player, is
quietly cementing his position as the most influential fly-half in the
Heineken Cup.Sure, Stephen Jones and Charlie Hodgson are not playing in this tournament
and Jonny Wilkinson is sidelined, but could anyone imagine, say, Andy Goode,
a very decent English fly-half, exerting such authority on the Super 12?Not a chance. Many of the British international threequarters would struggle
for a Super 12 contract in New Zealand because British skill levels behind
the scrum are feeble in comparison. Holwell, uncapped, is quietly
galvanising an exciting and accurate Leinster back line with nothing
flashier than pure technique. -
@jegga Great Find. That's pretty typical Barnes to be honest. Complete tool, massively influence by a player having a few good games that he's commentated on (badly). Holwell didn't make any lasting influence on NH rugby at 10. Nick Evans certainly did and to a lesser extent Gopperth.
He's also the bloke that said Andy Saul would be the future of England seven play and the Matt 'Conrad' Hopper was the answer to all all England's midfield problems
Don't blame you if you've not heard of either
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He's always struck me as a babbling moron and I was quite disappointed to see he was the author of the article when I searched it up. It would have carried some weight if it was written by somebody who opinions people respected. Manny Edmonds was another one who did well in the north , I don't recall him doing much of note for Australia but the game must have suited him there.
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@Pot-Hale said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@profitius said in Jimmy Gopperth:
@Billy-Tell said in Jimmy Gopperth:
I think Madigan was one of the most over-rated players for a while there. He had one very good Pro 12 season, and after that he was seen as the next big thing. It never materialised, but Leinster fans were still clinging to the dream when Gopperth arrived. Interestingly the next big flyhalf-hope for Leinster is also Kiwi-born (Joey Carbery)...but I'll be fair and point out to Irish parents.
Yeah Madigan is overrated. He is a 90% kicker, a good runner, has a good pass etc but like a lot of young players like that, he doesn't have the brain to be a top class 10. He is doing well in France now which is his level.
Carbery is a terrific talent who has made a few mistakes in his 2 games but genuinely looks a level above Paddy Jackson already and probably Sexton too. Moved to Ireland when he was 12 so thanks to NZ for his early development but hands off! lol
I was wondering when Carberry's name was going to come up in discussion and the land of his birth. I didn't know his parents were Irish, but just thought the father moved here for work to Athy when young Joey was 12. Did the usual mix of sports then discovered best at rugby and ended up moving to Blackrock College to finish his schooling and develop his talent. He's only in second year Academy, so he's doing well to start his third league game on the trot.
If the Nucifora edict about investment in academy structures and better monitoring of lower club talent and development of younger players instead of buying ' furriners', starts to bear fruit, the next few years will be interesting.
Wait, what?
