NH club rugby

Derm McCrum

@pot-hale well I think it seemed form the outset Piutau was driven by the money, so for him to then be viewed as not giving a shit, then is that surprising?

Maybe not. It’s disappointing all the same. When I see guys like Nacewa and Triggs put their heart into everything and probably not rewarded as well, it pisses me off. I have a thing for honest endeavor I suppose. Strauss, Payne, Aki and Stander tick the boxes on those too. I admire their commitment.

Nepia

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?

Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.

When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary ). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story.

Derm McCrum

@nepia said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?

Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.

When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary ). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story.

Errr why would I be trolling the PRO14 and Leinster?

It’s standard stuff from Jones on both topics.

Nepia

@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:

@nepia said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?

Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.

When I first read it I thought it was Pot Hale's too - I thought, damn that's ban-able trolling (even posting it should probably be a yellow card and trip to the judiciary ). Same old same old for Jones, but because he's pay walled now he has to be even more outrageous to try and catch the NZ Herald's eye so they'll print parts of the story.

Errr why would I be trolling the PRO14 and Leinster?

It’s standard stuff from Jones on both topics.

I skim read right to the middle of it - missed your opening sentences.

So he hates you guys as much as us?

taniwharugby

@pot-hale it's easy for us to sit here and say how we would act...I can say if I was in the position I wouldnt turn down an AB jersey for Euro money...but then I have never actually been in teh position to have to make the decision, and I guess if you worked towards something, while the extra euros/pounds/dollars make you feel better, leaving behind a dream must take a little bit away from you.

MiketheSnow

@taniwharugby said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale it's easy for us to sit here and say how we would act...I can say if I was in the position I wouldnt turn down an AB jersey for Euro money...but then I have never actually been in teh position to have to make the decision, and I guess if you worked towards something, while the extra euros/pounds/dollars make you feel better, leaving behind a dream must take a little bit away from you.

+1

Jobs are easy to come by, Caps not so much

Derm McCrum

News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.

If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.

SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.

Billy Tell

Lets row the boat back a bit there. An unsubstantiated report has appeared in Walesonline making such claims. Click bait at present.

taniwharugby

@pot-hale we have a cool pool format you could use

booboo

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?

Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.

I glanced at it and have only just now realised it was Walrus not @Pot-Hale

Was thinking it was rather over provocative from our Irish friend ...

Knowing it was Jones means I can safely file as verbal sewage, ignore, flush the dunny and move on.

Rapido

@booboo said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@steven-harris said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale thanks for your insight,Will agree to disagree on some of your points however I do have a couple of questions for you..?
I have always watched many NZ players that have headed to the North to persue professional careeres.
It’s almost like some have embraced the challenge as you have mentioned ,and others it’s almost like the have just used it to pick up a big cheque and see out their careers.
Is that a perception with a lot of rugby followers in the North..?

Those were the Walrus's points. Not Pot Hale's.

I glanced at it and have only just now realised it was Walrus not @Pot-Hale

Was thinking it was rather over provocative from our Irish friend ...

Knowing it was Jones means I can safely file as verbal sewage, ignore, flush the dunny and move on.

The real learning form this incursion of walrusitis is that @Steven-Harris, thinking it was @Pot-Hale's verbal sewerage, is extremely polite when disagreeing .....

Rapido

@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:

News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.

If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.

SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.

Not sure how I'd feel about this.

The Saffa teams are just starting to get interesting again.

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington).

But, Australian teams are so poor at the moment. I would resolve this by not restricing All Black selection from Australian teams allowing some transfer of talent to Australia, until they rebuild their depth & interest ....

God knows what it would mean to Jaguares and Sunwolves. Without the Saffas I don't think the Jaguares remain viable. Unless ......

I'm not a huge fan of the comp crossing the hemisphere into Japan, although I feel if the Saffas go then rump-SANZAR would probably actually go further down this route and bring in North America. Whereas I would actually prefer a smaller same season, sameish timezone South pacific comp. Less travel, better viewing times, more local relevance.

7 NZ teams
4 Aus
1 Pacific
12 teams in total

or
6 NZ teams
5 Aus
1 Pacific

or
7 NZ teams
5 Aus
0 Pacific

A Pacific team, based in Suva, with a mandate to employ most of their players from those committed to the 3 PI nations would be great I think, but would require either outside private ownership or outside subsidisation.

Duluth

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington)

Central Vikings?

NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides. However it could be an opportunity to link the franchises back to their NPC unions more. 14 NPC sides, 2 NPC sides per franchise.

Rapido

@duluth said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington)

Central Vikings?

NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides. However it could be an opportunity to link the franchises back to their NPC unions more. 14 NPC sides, 2 NPC sides per franchise.

Yeah, that would fit quite well. Only difficult one (geographically) would be probably Wellington plus one other of the 3 Canes NPC teams. Would probably link Wellington and Hawkes Bay.

Just ignoring the ridiculous Tarankai switcheroo to the Chiefs.

Poor old Manawatu can be lumbered with that cursed union .....

NZRU doesn't seem to want more pro sides

Yeah, they don't seem to.
If it retracts, they won't have much choice.
If it just switches to Pacific + Americas Super Comp then they will want to remain at 5.

I do think the NZRU have been guilty of ignoring paying crowds when doing their financials.

I think they underestimate having say 7 x 18,000 ave crowds rather than 5 X x,000.

Having all games in timezone for overall TV Rights value for the NZ and Aus market.

Having enough NZ games each weekend that one or two are played in an afternoon slot rather than every pro game being at 7:30 so capturing the kids and families market (and ensuring there's actually still a market in 20 years time ....). AT the moment we even sometimes get a situation in SR that there is only 1 NZ game in a weekend (NZ derby on a Friday night, 1 team on a bye, 2 other teams playing overseas - meaning 7:30 sat night is vacant etc)

At the moment their market is quite narrow.

TV = Adults or adults with older kids, with sky, probably with either 2 TVs or a rugby interested spouse.
Attendance = Adults, after work drinks crowd, Families with older kids. Only those 'travelling' from immediate surroundings due to late finishes.

This may not, probably won't, make up for the immediate loss of SA TV money. But there are other revenue sources that are sacrificed in NZ to meet the narrow confines of only 5 teams.

taniwharugby

So SA blaming the time zones and travel schedules on their exodus of players, nothing at all to do with governance?

South African rugby is losing players en masse to the northern hemisphere game and it has been suggested that a stronger alignment with the PRO14 competition will help stem that flow.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/103676115/south-african-super-rugby-exodus-set-to-continue-according-to-welsh-report

pukunui

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:

News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.

If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.

SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.

Not sure how I'd feel about this.

The Saffa teams are just starting to get interesting again.

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington).

But, Australian teams are so poor at the moment. I would resolve this by not restricing All Black selection from Australian teams allowing some transfer of talent to Australia, until they rebuild their depth & interest ....

God knows what it would mean to Jaguares and Sunwolves. Without the Saffas I don't think the Jaguares remain viable. Unless ......

I'm not a huge fan of the comp crossing the hemisphere into Japan, although I feel if the Saffas go then rump-SANZAR would probably actually go further down this route and bring in North America. Whereas I would actually prefer a smaller same season, sameish timezone South pacific comp. Less travel, better viewing times, more local relevance.

7 NZ teams
4 Aus
1 Pacific
12 teams in total

or
6 NZ teams
5 Aus
1 Pacific

or
7 NZ teams
5 Aus
0 Pacific

A Pacific team, based in Suva, with a mandate to employ most of their players from those committed to the 3 PI nations would be great I think, but would require either outside private ownership or outside subsidisation.

Im sorry but that sounds god awful.
One of the few advantages have at the moment is that our franchises are relatively strong and each of our teams plays 8 games against those strong teams. Dividing those up further or going all in with the disaster that is Australian rugby either by playing them more or giving them players is going to kill rugby in NZ. I for one would be cancelling my sky subscription if any of those comps replaced super rugby.

If it does happen that South africa leave and take their cash with them then i would be looking at having a NZ only comp with the 5 existing franchises. Take some games to the US/japan to try and bring in some money using high quality product rather than this constant push to dilute the quality in order to expand.

KiwiMurph

@pukunui said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:

News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.

If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.

SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.

Not sure how I'd feel about this.

The Saffa teams are just starting to get interesting again.

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington).

But, Australian teams are so poor at the moment. I would resolve this by not restricing All Black selection from Australian teams allowing some transfer of talent to Australia, until they rebuild their depth & interest ....

God knows what it would mean to Jaguares and Sunwolves. Without the Saffas I don't think the Jaguares remain viable. Unless ......

I'm not a huge fan of the comp crossing the hemisphere into Japan, although I feel if the Saffas go then rump-SANZAR would probably actually go further down this route and bring in North America. Whereas I would actually prefer a smaller same season, sameish timezone South pacific comp. Less travel, better viewing times, more local relevance.

7 NZ teams
4 Aus
1 Pacific
12 teams in total

or
6 NZ teams
5 Aus
1 Pacific

or
7 NZ teams
5 Aus
0 Pacific

A Pacific team, based in Suva, with a mandate to employ most of their players from those committed to the 3 PI nations would be great I think, but would require either outside private ownership or outside subsidisation.

Im sorry but that sounds god awful.
One of the few advantages have at the moment is that our franchises are relatively strong and each of our teams plays 8 games against those strong teams. Dividing those up further or going all in with the disaster that is Australian rugby either by playing them more or giving them players is going to kill rugby in NZ. I for one would be cancelling my sky subscription if any of those comps replaced super rugby.

If it does happen that South africa leave and take their cash with them then i would be looking at having a NZ only comp with the 5 existing franchises. Take some games to the US/japan to try and bring in some money using high quality product rather than this constant push to dilute the quality in order to expand.

Yeah cos that wouldn't get old.....and would bring in so much broadcasting money.....

Stargazer

Reports of South African exodus 'simply wrong': SANZAAR

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos has branded reports of a South African exodus as 'simply wrong' and expressed disappointment at reports of possible structures beyond 2020.

A report out of Wales overnight said that South Africa's Sharks, Lions and Stormers were considering moving to the European competition in the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021 seasons, joining the Cheetahs and the Kings.

But SANZAAR, organisers of Super Rugby and the Rugby Championship said the report was unfounded and South Africa, Australia, New Zealand and Argentina remained committed to future participation.

SANZAAR CEO Andy Marinos rubbished those reports in a statement on Monday morning, and also expressed his frustration that the longer-term possibilities had been revealed in media reports.

"SANZAAR - through its joint venture partners - Australia, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa - is currently engaged in a detailed strategic planning process that will deliver a road-map for the organisation, Super Rugby and The Rugby Championship from 2018-2030," the statement read.

"As part of this process the partners have fully committed to the strategy and future participation.

"Any talk of a change to the stakeholder relationship and partners withdrawing, and so-called trans- Ta$man competitions is unsubstantiated speculation and simply wrong."

The rest of the article is more a topic for the Super Rugby thread ...

taniwharugby

@stargazer the amusing thing is, that the report speculates 3 more teams would move, names them, which leaves the Bulls to do what? hold the SA flag in Super rugby or try and muscle their way into the NH game too?

pukunui

@kiwimurph said in NH club rugby:

@pukunui said in NH club rugby:

@rapido said in NH club rugby:

@pot-hale said in NH club rugby:

News emerging today that 2-3 more SA teams will join PRO14 in two years time with at least three in place for 2020/21 season. Natal-based Sharks to lead the way with Lions and Stormers to follow.

If it reaches 18 teams then it’s possible that three conferences would be created with IRFU, WRU and SARU teams anchoring each one.

SARU would probably join the 3 Celtic shareholders in Celtic Rugby DAC who own the PRO Rugby competition.

Not sure how I'd feel about this.

The Saffa teams are just starting to get interesting again.

Yet, a Trans- Ta$man or South Pacific based comp would be good (for me) if NZ more teams (7, split the Blues into South of the Harbour and North of the Harbour, split provincial Hurricanes from Wellington).

But, Australian teams are so poor at the moment. I would resolve this by not restricing All Black selection from Australian teams allowing some transfer of talent to Australia, until they rebuild their depth & interest ....

God knows what it would mean to Jaguares and Sunwolves. Without the Saffas I don't think the Jaguares remain viable. Unless ......

I'm not a huge fan of the comp crossing the hemisphere into Japan, although I feel if the Saffas go then rump-SANZAR would probably actually go further down this route and bring in North America. Whereas I would actually prefer a smaller same season, sameish timezone South pacific comp. Less travel, better viewing times, more local relevance.

7 NZ teams
4 Aus
1 Pacific
12 teams in total

or
6 NZ teams
5 Aus
1 Pacific

or
7 NZ teams
5 Aus
0 Pacific

A Pacific team, based in Suva, with a mandate to employ most of their players from those committed to the 3 PI nations would be great I think, but would require either outside private ownership or outside subsidisation.

Im sorry but that sounds god awful.
One of the few advantages have at the moment is that our franchises are relatively strong and each of our teams plays 8 games against those strong teams. Dividing those up further or going all in with the disaster that is Australian rugby either by playing them more or giving them players is going to kill rugby in NZ. I for one would be cancelling my sky subscription if any of those comps replaced super rugby.

If it does happen that South africa leave and take their cash with them then i would be looking at having a NZ only comp with the 5 existing franchises. Take some games to the US/japan to try and bring in some money using high quality product rather than this constant push to dilute the quality in order to expand.

Yeah cos that wouldn't get old.....and would bring in so much broadcasting money.....

Yeah cause more matches against the rebels and reds is really going to get the cash flowing in.
Such a high quality product.

The Silver Fern

NH club rugby