Canterbury v Hawke's Bay

[Higgins]

One thing we can pat ourselves on the back for is four beautiful lineout wins. Oh thats right we managed to lose the other eight of our throws but never mind the four we won were pieces of art.

[Stargazer]

@Higgins said in Canterbury v Hawke's Bay:

I'm worried about Stargazer who is strangely absent, has he been called into the squad and taken his place on the bench as his silence is out of character? If not then please lock up all your sharp knives, scissors, razor blades and lenghts of rope. We need your insightful thoughts.

Thanks christ Mr. Kelly blows his whistle for full time and we manage to restrict them to Hawkes Bay 07 - 63 Canterbury so a moral victory to us for keeping the score under one hundred.

My absence can be entirely explained by my better half walking into the garden almost crying and screaming in despair. Couldn't leave her there in case the neighbours would call an ambulance/police/SPCA.

[billsy11]

What we just saw pisses me off. In reality we were never going to win, but when you see a team whose basics are so far behind the opposition you start asking questions. Our passing looked pedestrian in comparison. Our tackling , enough said about that. Eaton tapping the ball, and bugger me trying to take Dominic Bird on . The lineout was a bloody shambles and to be honest they looked like they were there to simply play out 80 minutes. As a life long Bay supporter this is not bloody good enough. Where is the pride in that Jersey. Our great players of yesteryear, if they were watching must have been spewing. Yes it's a tough competition but for Christ's sake show a bit of professional pride and passion.

[Stargazer]

Seriously .. WTF!

First: possible injuries from this game
Tony Lamborn left the field injured; radio commentators said something about a rib injury but they may have been guessing
Riccitelli looked in pain when he left the field, but that may have been mental pain as well
Mason Emerson looked injured from the first minutes of the game (neck?), but played all game

Second: the positives
There were only a few: I like Cridge for some reason and Abbott's work rate is to be admired. I also (still) like Garland, and Mason Emerson is like a terrier that won't let go. My only laugh during the game was when he was trying to get past Bird, who carried/pushed him into touch with just one hand. Tallest v smallest player on the field was quite hilarious (although I might have been hysterical from desperation at that stage). Lowe a mixed bag. West wasn't that bad, how can you lead a team around the field that drops every ball & misses every tackle? Only got to kick one conversion and nailed it.

Third: the negatives
Everything else. Line-outs terrible. Bad throws and even worse catching. Filipo was really awful and maybe the worst of the lot? Can't even say it with certainty as so much went wrong. Even Ash Dixon couldn't throw the ball anymore. Why can't they tackle anymore? It wasn't a problem last year.

I'm convinced the problem is a combination of:

• lack in leadership and proper communication: this seems mostly due to the departure/absence of experienced players like O'Connor, Edmonds, Buckman, Guildford, Dagg and especially Horrell.
• related: lack of contracting experienced players to replace them. May and Filipo are too small bandages for too big wounds as my old lady would say (my mother was a nurse).
• mental issues: lack of confidence, fighting spirit, sheer panic etc
• coaching: Philpott inadequate and too distracted by his career planning?
• missing people like Grant Dearns?

By the way, is Philpott the first coach to coach a team to a second relegation to the Championship?

Now off to see whether Mrs SG hasn't cut her wrists or drowned herself in the bath after that appalling performance.

[Higgins]

We are all feeling your pain Billsy11. What we are witnessing is completely unacceptable in the days of professionalism. The players have nothing to do in their lives other than to practive and perfect rugby skills until they have them down pat. You cannot say we have seen anything remotely resembling that.
What is youre honest opinion on the standard of players doing the rounds in club rugby back home as they look to be somewhat underwhelming when compared to Unions like Counties who rely almost exclusively on players from within their own catchment. If we don't have players available in the local club competition do we grim and bear it and take it with a grain of salt or do we go out and buy a team capable of footing it (or at least holding their own) in the competition. It looks like we are not adopting either at this stage with the imported players like Ross Filipo and Ben May being eligible to play Presidents Grade for the last couple of seasons and Ben May close to achieving that accolade as well. Neither are worldbeaters and one must question whether the money should not have been spent elsewhere. I supose the same could be said about Robbie Fruean but in his case it is his continuing injuries that are the problem (Hugh Rent and Gareth Evans also fall into that category) but at least he has been a Bay player for the last few seasons.
Getting a compeitive team on the field is a bit of a balancing act but whatever is being used this season is clearly not work and something that should have been obvious right from the start of the pre-season games, if not before that.

[billsy11]

@Higgins Mate here's the way I see it. At the start of the season it was clear we were going to lose a truckload of experience in key positions. That was clear very early. In answer to your question NO we do not have players in club rugby that I've seen capable of filling those spots. The only player in club rugby who possibly could is Sam Giddens who played a few years back. To not buy in experience is dumbfounding. Finance I refuse to believe is the issue (Ranfurly Shield era and good crowds last year) make a mockery of that. So what does it come down to? Either very poor planning and recruitment or a CEO who wouldn't release the finance to buy what was needed. Either way it's unacceptable. Simply put to play with the big boys have a big boys mentality not that of a whitebait.

[Higgins]

Experience is the reason trumpted by Mr. Bishop as the basis behind the signings ofFilipo and May. Sadly he did not factor in the ability to perform into the equation. Hell if he wanted experience he could have gone after Brad Thorne. I cannot comment on the financial aspects but do know that we have traditionally been one of the higher spenders on players salaries in the NPC and despite that we have also returned a surplus at the end of each season, albeit rather modest when compared to other unions. That has to be a feather in Mr. Bishop's cap coming during a period when most other unions were bleeding cash hand over fist and for that we must be grateful to him. Maybe with the loss of the Shield he factored in certain less gate takings and possible sponsorship income and tailored the wage bill to fit into the worst case scenario. He would have had an inkling on how this were going income wise. If that's the situation there is not much we can do about it but if there is still the same level on income then we can start waving the big stick.
Questions should also be asked about the performance of our Academy given the poor results of our age grade sides compared to the past when we were almost unbeatable at Under 16 and Under 18 levels. Why are these players not being produces nowadays, is it because the raw materials are not there to start with or perhaps not enough resourse is bieng directd into that level?

[billsy11]

@Higgins I totally agree with you in regards to what is happening in the age grades of Bay rugby. We use to be one of countries best in terms of results and quality players produced. Don't get me wrong I'm not anti Mike Bishop. I wouldnt want his job and generally I admire the job he's done. I just don't understand why we haven't bought in players to fill key positions, and let's face it we are being exposed by most sides. Is the relationship between the coaches and CEO strained? There must be something surely that we haven't been privy to. I just don't get it.

[Stargazer]

Sounds sensible @Higgins, but if they didn't hire good experienced players because they expected less gate takings due to loss of the Shield etc and felt they had to tailor the wage bill, then they could also have expected that average or bad results (esp in home games) will also reduce crowd numbers and lower the gate takings.

I read plenty of "fans" saying that they won't be going to games anymore because of the poor results. That's not my kind of supporter, but it's a reality.

Also wondering (I didn't check): did they lose important sponsors (other than a change from Kooga to Paladin)?

I still sense that there is more going on. For example, how are the relationships between the coaches, and between the coaches and CEO/board? Do the "old" and the "new" players get on with each other; do they still want to play for each other? What's the relationship like between coaches and players? Why did Dearns leave? Why Buckman? Did something happen? I know this all food for conspiracy theories but something isn't quite right and we don't know what. The players who were so good last year don't suddenly lose the ability to tackle, pass and catch. Do the Magpies have a mental skills coach; they sure seem to need one.

If something is going on and they can't solve it, they need a broom and sweep everything clean. Complete change of management up to the highest level and coaching staff. Make a fresh start next year in the Championship.

[billsy11]

@Stargazer You are spot on.

[Higgins]

Buckman and Dearns would almost certainly have left because of offers received with much largers salaries attached and we cannot hold that against them.The retention of Robbie Fruean is one that needs examining. He is invariably unavailable because of injury and it would not be surprising if he too does not bugger off overseas next season given that there was not exactly a queue beating at his door to sign him this season. In short he had very little to offer the HBRFU short term and certainly nil in the mid to long term so why offer him a new contract.

Others like Andrew Horrell and Brendon O'Connor have been loyal players over a number of seasons so we cannot begrudge the likes of them and Buckman taking up high paying contracts overseas. Injured players like Gareth Evans might have made a difference but not a huge one everything considered whilst Sam McNichol is still going through the proving himself process and might have had some impact but we won't know until we have had the chance to see him over an extended period.
The biggest losses might have been Brendon Edmonds and Michael Allardice however our froint row has been going reasonably ok in Edmonds absense and Allardice was replaced by Geoffrey Cridge another Super Rugby player already under contract so thats a like for like replacement. In that regard we were already covered by the resources already available to us so that cannot really be proffered as a major reason in our decline.

Whatever the problem is is irrevelant now in regard to the ultimate outcome of this season so no point in dwelling on it. Hopefully the powers that be will learn from this and have the wheels already set in motion to ensure this season's disaster is not replicated next season.