How good are the Boks?
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@booboo said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
A hypothetical league containing Boks 2024, ABs 2015, Eng 2003, Oz 1999, NZ 1996, Boks 2009 (my opinion on the best international teams of the pro era)
Who wins? Ref is Nigel Owens. For me, the best ref of the last 30 years.
NZ 2015.
Easy.
Great team, filled with GOAT players in so many positions, knew how to win
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@booboo said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
A hypothetical league containing Boks 2024, ABs 2015, Eng 2003, Oz 1999, NZ 1996, Boks 2009 (my opinion on the best international teams of the pro era)
Who wins? Ref is Nigel Owens. For me, the best ref of the last 30 years.
NZ 2015.
Easy.
The bok NZ game at that WC was pretty darn close. That after the sorry boks were beaten by Japan a few weeks earlier. I don't know. Would be a good game.
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@W32 said in How good are the Boks?:
@booboo said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
A hypothetical league containing Boks 2024, ABs 2015, Eng 2003, Oz 1999, NZ 1996, Boks 2009 (my opinion on the best international teams of the pro era)
Who wins? Ref is Nigel Owens. For me, the best ref of the last 30 years.
NZ 2015.
Easy.
The bok NZ game at that WC was pretty darn close. That after the sorry boks were beaten by Japan a few weeks earlier. I don't know. Would be a good game.
Yeah my "easy" referred to it being an easy decision, not necessarily an easy victory.
Played 10 times I'd back that 2015 team to win 7.
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@W32 Boks 2023 (which is basically Boks 2024) beat an inferior (when compared to NZ 2015) team by one point playing with an extra man for 50+ mins.
Boks 2024 and ABs 2015 both know how to win tight games. For me it would come down to 2 things - (1) can ABs 2015 front row stand up to the Boks 2024 one at scrum time and (2) can Boks 2024 slow down the ruck speed enough of ABs 2015.
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Watching the URC round 3 matches this weekend and realise again how much talent South Africa have at the moment. The Lions struggled in the URC and now their investment in their own young talents start to pay rich dividends. They only had a few players in the Bok squad but that is going to change. Sharks and Bulls are poaching from everywhere while the Stormers and Lions invest in their youth structures.
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@OomPB said in How good are the Boks?:
Watching the URC round 3 matches this weekend and realise again how much talent South Africa have at the moment. The Lions struggled in the URC and now their investment in their own young talents start to pay rich dividends. They only had a few players in the Bok squad but that is going to change. Sharks and Bulls are poaching from everywhere while the Stormers and Lions invest in their youth structures.
Depth. Boks have depth. In terms of talent, who are the players not currently playing for the Boks who will raise the bar in how they play? At the end of the day, you can only pick 23 on match day, so who is the diamond that will lift the Boks to new heights.
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@OomPB said in How good are the Boks?:
Watching the URC round 3 matches this weekend and realise again how much talent South Africa have at the moment. The Lions struggled in the URC and now their investment in their own young talents start to pay rich dividends. They only had a few players in the Bok squad but that is going to change. Sharks and Bulls are poaching from everywhere while the Stormers and Lions invest in their youth structures.
Depth. Boks have depth. In terms of talent, who are the players not currently playing for the Boks who will raise the bar in how they play? At the end of the day, you can only pick 23 on match day, so who is the diamond that will lift the Boks to new heights.
Cameron Hanekom - that's my prediction.
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@Billy-Webb said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@OomPB said in How good are the Boks?:
Watching the URC round 3 matches this weekend and realise again how much talent South Africa have at the moment. The Lions struggled in the URC and now their investment in their own young talents start to pay rich dividends. They only had a few players in the Bok squad but that is going to change. Sharks and Bulls are poaching from everywhere while the Stormers and Lions invest in their youth structures.
Depth. Boks have depth. In terms of talent, who are the players not currently playing for the Boks who will raise the bar in how they play? At the end of the day, you can only pick 23 on match day, so who is the diamond that will lift the Boks to new heights.
Cameron Hanekom - that's my prediction.
At flank or no. 8?
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Billy-Webb said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@OomPB said in How good are the Boks?:
Watching the URC round 3 matches this weekend and realise again how much talent South Africa have at the moment. The Lions struggled in the URC and now their investment in their own young talents start to pay rich dividends. They only had a few players in the Bok squad but that is going to change. Sharks and Bulls are poaching from everywhere while the Stormers and Lions invest in their youth structures.
Depth. Boks have depth. In terms of talent, who are the players not currently playing for the Boks who will raise the bar in how they play? At the end of the day, you can only pick 23 on match day, so who is the diamond that will lift the Boks to new heights.
Cameron Hanekom - that's my prediction.
At flank or no. 8?
Definitely no. 8
IMO he has the ingredients to become our best there for many years to come. -
@Billy-Webb I saw his performance against Leinster last year. Boks are well stocked at 8 already with Elrigh Louw and Evan Roos. You think Hanekom is better than both? He must be some player.
Who replaces PSDT and Etzebeth in the next 3 years? PSDT may make 2027 WC, but he'll be 35 by then and the body may not be willing to do what the mind wants. I think these 2 are the Boks standout players in a current world XV.
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@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Billy-Webb I saw his performance against Leinster last year. Boks are well stocked at 8 already with Elrigh Louw and Evan Roos. You think Hanekom is better than both? He must be some player.
Who replaces PSDT and Etzebeth in the next 3 years? PSDT may make 2027 WC, but he'll be 35 by then and the body may not be willing to do what the mind wants. I think these 2 are the Boks standout players in a current world XV.
I've always been a fan of Roos, but he hasn't convinced me when taking that final step up to international level yet.
Elrich Louw in contrast looked more at home in a Bok jersey imo. But I think he is more of a blindside flanker (7 in SA speak). He's no PSTD (yet) but reminds me a bit of Andre Venter (remember him?) Hard, uncompromising workhorse.From what I have seen of him, Hanekom strikes me as a true no.8. Of course, we still have to see how he copes one level up.
On replacing PSDT and Etzebeth... and you can add in Marx there as well, I really don't know. Truly outstanding players. But when Duane Vermeulen's retirement started looming, I was equally concerned about a long term replacement at 8 and already there are some promising contenders. So who knows... Maybe the SA forward factory produces once again.
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@Billy-Webb said in How good are the Boks?:
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@Billy-Webb I saw his performance against Leinster last year. Boks are well stocked at 8 already with Elrigh Louw and Evan Roos. You think Hanekom is better than both? He must be some player.
Who replaces PSDT and Etzebeth in the next 3 years? PSDT may make 2027 WC, but he'll be 35 by then and the body may not be willing to do what the mind wants. I think these 2 are the Boks standout players in a current world XV.
I've always been a fan of Roos, but he hasn't convinced me when taking that final step up to international level yet.
Elrich Louw in contrast looked more at home in a Bok jersey imo. But I think he is more of a blindside flanker (7 in SA speak). He's no PSTD (yet) but reminds me a bit of Andre Venter (remember him?) Hard, uncompromising workhorse.From what I have seen of him, Hanekom strikes me as a true no.8. Of course, we still have to see how he copes one level up.
On replacing PSDT and Etzebeth... and you can add in Marx there as well, I really don't know. Truly outstanding players. But when Duane Vermeulen's retirement started looming, I was equally concerned about a long term replacement at 8 and already there are some promising contenders. So who knows... Maybe the SA forward factory produces once again.
I remember Venter. Loved him as a player. No frills, uncompromising, hard bastard. So sad to see him struck down by illness.
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@Billy-Webb Grobbelaar (Bulls) looks promising at hooker, no?
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So far my verdict is that he is decent, but nothing strikes me as "outstanding" from him (yet).
In fairness, Bongi Mbonambi was also a slow burner early in his career and I rate him now.
But Marx was special from the get-go as far as I remember - if memory doesn't fail me here. One of those guys you saw for the first time and just knew he was going to be a Bok. -
@stodders said in How good are the Boks?:
@W32 Boks 2023 (which is basically Boks 2024) beat an inferior (when compared to NZ 2015) team by one point playing with an extra man for 50+ mins.
Boks 2024 and ABs 2015 both know how to win tight games. For me it would come down to 2 things - (1) can ABs 2015 front row stand up to the Boks 2024 one at scrum time and (2) can Boks 2024 slow down the ruck speed enough of ABs 2015.
Yes that was a superhuman effort by the ABs in the 2023 final, very similar to the bok AB game at the 2015 world cup. It so hard to compare different eras as the game has changed. I would say the modern teams play smarter rugby than the previous eras....the tactics have evolved and the players are more professional. Watching an old game shows great effort but less accuracy than in the modern game....generally.
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@stodders I know Grobbies well. Speaking about Andre Venter, his son is also a great young talent in 2 for the Stormers.
To replace PSdT is going to be difficult. He sure is a once in a lifetime player. Myself do rate BJD. He is still very young but he play like PSdT.
From the Lions some great young talents are Henco van Wyk, Quan Horn, his Boet Frankie Horn and Kade Wolhuter. Dobson should have never let Wolhuter go from the Stormers. I am also very excited with the young 9, Nico Steyn. Future Springbok.
Remember JC Pretorius from the BlitsBoks. He is quickly following Kwaggas footsteps.
The Lions u21 and u19s are also very good.
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South Africa have some real deep talent in lock and TH fatties. Watching Wilco Louw again on the weekend against Ulster, he will walk into any other international team. Ditto Neethling Fouche. Look at Nortje, I bet JD Schickerling is going to challenge him for aerial lock. All our franchises have decent packs . Lineouts and scrums are outstanding.
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Ok, I'm getting bored by the SA love in.
SA are supposedly fucking awesome and we are fucking shit, yet we led them for 98% of match 1 and didn't exactly get trounced in match 2.
When we are awesome & they are shit, we put 50 on them, in the reverse we come within a bees dick of a drawn series on their home turf.
Everybody calm the fuck down.
(Said just slightly in jest)
