Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series
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@nzzp said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Preach, Dylan Cleaver
The Black Caps have, in the space of the decade, gone from one of the most innovative and nimble high-performance programmes in the world, to one that is utterly predictable. It is also one that is unsheltered and vulnerable to the global winds of change in cricket.
Stead dined out on the best group of talent we've ever had, and did little to identify and prepare the next group to take over. Probably not helped by administration and high performance talent development in NZC. Sounds like another code I know...
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Good way for Southee to retire with a test average under 30 I guess.
Ih he never plays again he's sandwiched between Beefy Botham and Malcolm Marshall on the all time wicket takers list! His average has slipped beyond Beefy's.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Good way for Southee to retire with a test average under 30 I guess.
Ih he never plays again he's sandwiched between Beefy Botham and Malcolm Marshall on the all time wicket takers list! His average has slipped beyond Beefy's.
Still firmly in the list of very good seamers for NZ….just !
Those are a couple of great names to be in and around
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@MN5 Hasn't done too much damage to his bowling average by hanging on. In reality Timmy's average only very occasionally dipped below 28 - his bowling and batting peaks unfortunately were both after his first test!
Beefy by contrast had a bowling average below 20 for quite a while and probably should have ended around Sir Paddles rather than around Tim.
Tim's place in the NZ hierarchy firmly assured - doesn't quite make the best XI of my lifetime, but probably makes the squad.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 Hasn't done too much damage to his bowling average by hanging on. In reality Timmy's average only very occasionally dipped below 28 - his bowling and batting peaks unfortunately were both after his first test!
Beefy by contrast had a bowling average below 20 for quite a while and probably should have ended around Sir Paddles rather than around Tim.
Tim's place in the NZ hierarchy firmly assured - doesn't quite make the best XI of my lifetime, but probably makes the squad.
New Zealand Test matches bowling best career bowling average | ESPNcricinfo
Find New Zealand cricket Test matches bowling best career bowling average at ESPNcricinfo. Records and stats of New Zealand Test matches bowling best career bowling average.
Summed up pretty well there.
Yeah Beefy was going at 23 and 38 respectively before finishing up about the same as Chris Cairns.
I’m also not sure if Southee sneaks into an all time XI although he is a definite chance as we didn’t have too many to compete with Sir Paddles
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
I’m also not sure if Southee sneaks into an all time XI although he is a definite chance as we didn’t have too many to compete with Sir Paddles
If Southee consistently batted to his potential then he'd have more of a show - Hadlee, Bond, Boult, Wagner for me. Guile, Pace, Swing, Bounce. Two RH two LH Just a more varied attack. Can't see Timmee as a 4th seamer.
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@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
I’m also not sure if Southee sneaks into an all time XI although he is a definite chance as we didn’t have too many to compete with Sir Paddles
If Southee consistently batted to his potential then he'd have more of a show - Hadlee, Bond, Boult, Wagner for me. Guile, Pace, Swing, Bounce. Two RH two LH Just a more varied attack. Can't see Timmee as a 4th seamer.
I would be extremely comfortable with those options.
As always the question mark is whether Bond played enough to warrant selection. Even perpetually broken down Kyle Jamieson has played more tests !
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@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
As always the question mark is whether Bond played enough to warrant selection. Even perpetually broken down Kyle Jamieson has played more tests !
Not hard to pick on what we saw, though.
Question-mark as to whether we play three seamers or four.
The batting is pretty short with four seamers plus Vettori.
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With R J Hadlee, Cowie, Bond, and Boult, I'm not sure we need a spinner.
At the risk of furthering round #87 of the all time Black Caps XI thread... but is a nice distraction from the first innings disaster last week. The ten year old cricketer in the house is still bemused at one team scoring 602/5, and the other only 88 in reply.
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@Donsteppa In the fine print above I've resorted to picking the best XI of my lifetime, since most people simply discount Dempster, Donnelly and Cowie (as if we were rolling in batsmen with 50+ averages and bowlers with sub-22 averages)!
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@dogmeat said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
As always the question mark is whether Bond played enough to warrant selection. Even perpetually broken down Kyle Jamieson has played more tests !
Not hard to pick on what we saw, though.
Question-mark as to whether we play three seamers or four.
The batting is pretty short with four seamers plus Vettori.
Better pick Cairns then, Paddles can hold a bat too.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 We could have BMac at 6 and Cairnsie at 7 - desperately trying to run each other out!
An annoying part of the demise of Devon Conway is that he was looking nailed on to be an all time opener. Now he's not as good as Tom Latham.
Yep. At best we’ve just had good openers. None approaching world class.
Wright looks a shoe in for one spot given the era he played. 37 in the 80s at the very top is a decent effort
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 Probably Turner and Wright.
Wright got better and better as he got older. He averaged around 45 for the second half of his career and well over 50 for the final quarter.
Yeah, will be interesting where Latham ends up.
Perhaps the captaincy will be the making of him and he’ll have a late career surge !
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Good way for Southee to retire with a test average under 30 I guess.
I thought I heard on the radio report that he still hopes to play despite stepping aside?
Tell him he's dreaming!
Actually, I don't mind if Tim stays in the wings and gets another couple of tests if injuries strike - but, there's no way he should be playing ahead of Matt Henry - and really, not Ben Sears either. Nor Jamo when he comes back.
Playing four seamers in NZ, Tim might still get a run.
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@Chris-B said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@canefan said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@MN5 said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Good way for Southee to retire with a test average under 30 I guess.
I thought I heard on the radio report that he still hopes to play despite stepping aside?
Tell him he's dreaming!
Actually, I don't mind if Tim stays in the wings and gets another couple of tests if injuries strike - but, there's no way he should be playing ahead of Matt Henry - and really, not Ben Sears either. Nor Jamo when he comes back.
Playing four seamers in NZ, Tim might still get a run.
Yeah right now Southee is a probable victim of the “let’s find the three least shit spinners in NZ and hope they don’t completely suck” selection policy of playing in the subcontinent. Back in NZ he’ll get a run, particularly for “experience” as I have a feeling Jamieson will still be broken.
In the next three tests it might mean a reprieve for Santner given Henry could come in as a straight swap for Southee ( as he should ) and they point to Santners useful batting in the last test despite being ineffective in the first test in all facets of the game.
Then again Phillips is doing the Santner role better than Santner.
So that leaves room for a wicket taking spinner to be selected ( awaits shrills of laughter )
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@canefan said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
@nzzp said in Black Caps v Sri Lanka Test Series:
Preach, Dylan Cleaver
The Black Caps have, in the space of the decade, gone from one of the most innovative and nimble high-performance programmes in the world, to one that is utterly predictable. It is also one that is unsheltered and vulnerable to the global winds of change in cricket.
Stead dined out on the best group of talent we've ever had, and did little to identify and prepare the next group to take over. Probably not helped by administration and high performance talent development in NZC. Sounds like another code I know...
Do we blame him or are the next wave of guys just not really good enough ?
New Zealand have ( had ) what I’d consider just TWO genuine all time legends of the game. I’m sure I don’t need to mention their names here.
England/Australia/West Indies/India would have had maybe 15-20 guys at that level.
SA/Pakistan perhaps 10-15 each ?
Sri Lanka ? I could name three.
Other test playing nations probably none.
Maybe we just need to accept the natural order of things at test level at the moment.
