V BOP
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Was the intent to provide everyone with an opportunity to start?
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side has had some very good moments, far outweighed by average skills and dumb decisions, but I also think the coaches have made some very odd substitutions (both starting and during the games)
Oh well, time to go have a big f-off glass of whiskey and look forward to the test!
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I obviously didn't watch the game but would have to think this result might have done a fair bit of damage to the coaches chances of retaining their positions given the winless streak we're currently on. We had a lot more experience than BoP, it was a must win game and we got thrashed.
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I thought we had been making inching progress in our first 4 games, with a bit of luck, reckon we cold have won 3 of our first 4...but that was woeful.
I dont think we can say they are done just yet, I am a firm believer that a coach really needs 3 seasons to really make his mark, but unless we win in from here, I think there is no point persisting for another season, win/loss ratio will be abysmal.
Problem is, who would take over?
Fuck is about all I wanna say any more on that, fuckity, fuckity, fuck, fuck!
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It's always a hard balance to work out whether it's players or coaches to blame. Now that we have had a number of players involved in Super Rugby, they've had a full season of build up and preparation and we're still 0-5. That's why I would be thinking it's the coaches that need changing. The games I've watched this year the team has looked like it has plenty of potential, it's just not being fulfilled.
Would have to think if the coaches do go Greg Shipton would be a contender. Good track record with North Otago and NZ Age Group teams, worked for the NRU for a long time and just won a club title with OBM in his first crack at it.
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our defensive structures seem poor, as we have under Harris and even Whitcombe, we defend too narrow. So often our winger seems to be defending as wide and thier centre position with an extra man out further, then there is the missing basic tackles too.
So much wrong with that game it aint funny!
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@Donsteppa think you will find no one here cares....bastard
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@taniwharugby Your tears taste delicious, Mwahaha! Err... I mean yes, yes it was nice to finally win one again. Full credit to both sides, thanks to the ref and the tea ladies..
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@Donsteppa Fluffybunny!
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@taniwharugby said in V BOP:
I thought we had been making inching progress in our first 4 games, with a bit of luck, reckon we cold have won 3 of our first 4...but that was woeful.
I dont think we can say they are done just yet, I am a firm believer that a coach really needs 3 seasons to really make his mark, but unless we win in from here, I think there is no point persisting for another season, win/loss ratio will be abysmal.
Problem is, who would take over?
Fuck is about all I wanna say any more on that, fuckity, fuckity, fuck, fuck!
Some games just go wrong but this was important. It is difficult thing being a coach and I wonder if there hands are tied by some contracting decisions e.g. With those Arg's where you have to select contracted players.
Glad I am not a Coach and have to manage players. But with a performance like that I think everyone will expect changes. It is about getting a performance from this team that matches the talent.
Some key things for me:
- game plans, leadership and aggression.This was our test match. Where were these last night?
- our long kicking game and chase is poor. Having said that last night Nock was good but Breem who is a valuable addition needs to work on getting us around the park and hitting some grass with his kicks. The times we kicked into space the chase was just really poor especially from our midfield.
- lineout defence was splintered. Too high and 1 or 2 fantails in the tight five not committing. We lacked aggression at this phase. I know players have to be careful when mauls change the point of attack but we just needed more players doing the basics well.
- passing decisions. The number of times we turned over ball with players running holes and balls bouncing off shoulders was frustrating. Better decisions and less glory hole running maybe - take the contact.
- player selection. Generally I think our props have all played well but Waa was a monster when he came on. For me the best hooker in our team this year is Ross Wright. He runs straight and hard, hits hard and the scrum seems at its best when he is there. Goodhue is great and I would add either Robinson or Larsen as his partner ( or the young Fijian lock who is good as well) Not sure if we lose size but Larsen has impressed all year and Robinson played with athleticism last night so hopeful he could bring that and a tight game if required to lock. Jack Ram has to start at blindside as his combination with Matich adds a toughness to the pack that is lacking when he is not there. It may mean we are down on lineout options but I think the lineout is about tactics. The backs are the problem area. I like Breem running the cutter but needs must. Hawkins to first five, Breem to second, Macalai to centre, Alaimalo to the Wing and Guy Wood to fullback. Macalai has impressed me with ability to make ground in contact, his accuracy and his offloading, and he is faster - not sure about his defence but I think that is better this year as well. Alaimalo has pace but seems like a heads down runner - I haven't seem him create from fullback so if that is Guy Wood position let's give him a crack. Lawebuka stays - he is always going to make mistakes but we need players that can have a positive impact on the game and he does. Again that centre from Waipu looked like a good option mid club season and with our contracted players not performing we seem to have limited our options.
That is my shot at this. But my teams don't have to play.
Also have to say that the young players coming through this year are fantastic - not mentioned above are Tamati Tua, Aorangi Stokes who look really good. The scrum performance has been a highlight. It's not all bad, but we need to get the monkey off our back and start winning.
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So disappointed,it's like we have taken 2 or 3 steps forward after the first 4 games and 6 x steps backwards after last night,I agree with Kev,regarding the absolute lack of energy and backbone shown last nights effort,the defensive effort was non existent..!,could handle this loss if we been beaten by a high flying premiership team,with a ton of super rugby experience,but some of the rookie errors resulted in BOP looking like world beaters,
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oh, so that was real....
Yep, took 3 steps up, and then tripped and fell back to the bottom, rolled over and fell down some more steps too!
Seems too many lapses in focus and decision making, which usually points to lack of conditioning, whihc if the case is simply not good enough.
I am still dark on some of the selections, they smack too much of rotation rather than putting your best team out.
If Robinson was gonna magically fix our lineout, then I guess thats ok, but pushing one of our best players consistently over the past 2 or 3 seasons to the bench, while he is playing well? Seemed a silly decision from my armchair.
We were 3 weeks in, 4 losses down, a chance to get a bit of momentum against another team low on confidence, and we dont pick our best team, or is this what they think is thier best team? We are fast running out of time...looking over the history of the ITM Cup, 19 points more often than not makes the top 4, we currently have 4 points;
Ta$man (A) - any points from this will be excellent: 0
Wellington (H) - target this to upset with Wellington not playing well: 4
Waikato (H) - we could get this, but we often fall over when we have a shot at Waikato: 1
Southland (A) - likely wooden spoon match, MUST WIN - 4
North Harbour (H) - NH in their quick turnaround, MUST WIN 5So, that gives us 18, which will not be enough to make top 4, but will it be enough, with our, expectations at this point?
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@taniwharugby said in V BOP:
oh, so that was real....
Yep, took 3 steps up, and then tripped and fell back to the bottom, rolled over and fell down some more steps too!
Seems too many lapses in focus and decision making, which usually points to lack of conditioning, whihc if the case is simply not good enough.
I am still dark on some of the selections, they smack too much of rotation rather than putting your best team out.
If Robinson was gonna magically fix our lineout, then I guess thats ok, but pushing one of our best players consistently over the past 2 or 3 seasons to the bench, while he is playing well? Seemed a silly decision from my armchair.
Your comment about tripping up and rolling down to the bottom stairs seems apt. I think we have history of performing well when nothing is at stake but still losing, and then turning up to games that matter and playing poorly. The mental game of finding a way to win is so important. More than ever I think we have the team and the coaching staff. But somehow we missed the mark last night. Makes next week very interesting.
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How many players debuted either last year or this year?
Larsen, Robinson, Matich, Nock, Breen, Tua, Hyland, Lawebuka, Stokes, Markwick, McLeod, Lama, Kite, Faleafa, plus a handful of others...point is, that is a huge chunk of our team that have never tasted victory at this level now, winning is as much a habit as losing, and we have the latter, again...wasnt it 2006 in Rangers debut season when we were on the back of an unprecedented losing streak we finally found a way to win?
How do you prepare a team to win, when they havent experienced it at that level? Similarly when the likes of Argentina, Scotland, Ireland et al line up against the ABs, how do you prepare them to try and win against a team that they have never beaten.
Losing sucks