Highlanders 2024
-
@African-Monkey said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann Random that they're releasing Tua as he's a regular starter in their midfield.
but I don't think he's an upgrade on anything you currently have.
Based off this season and the form we have had at 12 he sure would be.
-
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Also not a fan of picking up short-term solutions.
Neither am I, but nobody has said he’s the answer to our midfield problems? Its better to look ahead no doubt but if its possible to land him and he was happy to be a regular squad player(not necessarily starting each week) who offers experience for a year or 2 while Tele’a, Josh Whaanga and whoever it is they see at 12 long term find their feet at this level then in my opinion we would be silly not to at least entertain that option.
Proctor will be 32 by the time next season comes around so I don’t really see it happening, but if it did I wouldn’t be mad. If Tua wanted to come back to NZ and somehow landed up with us that would be great as he is only 26 and have an eye for the future with him that Proctor doesn’t provide. Defensive issues yes, but arguably a level above Gilbert based off this season.
The management team probably sees Te Hiwi and Whaanga as the likely long-term midfield. There is potential with both. Just not sure whether or not they are in the leagues of what the other NZ franchises have on their books. Xavi Taele, out of Auckland is the starting centre and VC of NZ U20s. Not likely to see Blues time anytime soon. Offer him a full contract and say come on down. There are quite a few guys who are very talented, that'll just be out of the picture in their home franchises. We should be looking to take advantage for the inns being full in their home towns.
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
normally im not a huge one for blaming the coaching, i more often than not find effort or basic handling bigger issues and those can be put at the feet of players as much as anything
....but i think far too often over the last few years ive struggled to actually see what we're trying to do or when i could see it it was pretty pedestrian, too often it was just crash at 12 and look for quick ball....but we'd look to crash on inside shoulder leaving the defence to spread wide
when i look at the players making good meters in the midfield they ALWAYS work to get onto the outside shoulder to either draw in the outside defender and make room for their wings....or to threaten that and to try and get the defence to over commit to the fold and fire back the other way...and we're either not trying to do that or putting in the effort to do it
either way, some really basic things need to change
There aren't many players who can beat their opposite and draw in the outside defender. The secret to doing that is bodies in motion so the defence has to make decisions. When I see that I know I'm watching players who are coachable and have a work ethic.
Also the ability to make defences over commit on the fold also requires movement and a scrum half that can identify when. Those appear few a d far between in New Zealand. The best we can hope for it seems to me is quick, accurate service with a bit of a running game to hold the inside defenders.
As I see it, the Highlanders have a ways to go on both counts, but I think that's more an issue of depth in the country.
-
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
-
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
The other guy is being released is Tamati Tua from the Brumbies. Defensively pretter average, does get over the gainline though. I can't see Proctor going to the Highlanders, especially as he turned us down to go to the Rebels. Also not a fan of picking up short-term solutions.
Proctor might put much more weight on job security in 2025...
-
@antipodean said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
normally im not a huge one for blaming the coaching, i more often than not find effort or basic handling bigger issues and those can be put at the feet of players as much as anything
....but i think far too often over the last few years ive struggled to actually see what we're trying to do or when i could see it it was pretty pedestrian, too often it was just crash at 12 and look for quick ball....but we'd look to crash on inside shoulder leaving the defence to spread wide
when i look at the players making good meters in the midfield they ALWAYS work to get onto the outside shoulder to either draw in the outside defender and make room for their wings....or to threaten that and to try and get the defence to over commit to the fold and fire back the other way...and we're either not trying to do that or putting in the effort to do it
either way, some really basic things need to change
There aren't many players who can beat their opposite and draw in the outside defender....
you say that...but every team seemed to have those players when up against us
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Also not a fan of picking up short-term solutions.
Neither am I, but nobody has said he’s the answer to our midfield problems? Its better to look ahead no doubt but if its possible to land him and he was happy to be a regular squad player(not necessarily starting each week) who offers experience for a year or 2 while Tele’a, Josh Whaanga and whoever it is they see at 12 long term find their feet at this level then in my opinion we would be silly not to at least entertain that option.
Proctor will be 32 by the time next season comes around so I don’t really see it happening, but if it did I wouldn’t be mad. If Tua wanted to come back to NZ and somehow landed up with us that would be great as he is only 26 and have an eye for the future with him that Proctor doesn’t provide. Defensive issues yes, but arguably a level above Gilbert based off this season.
The management team probably sees Te Hiwi and Whaanga as the likely long-term midfield.....
full name when talking about the Whaanga's please, you mean josh?
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@antipodean said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
normally im not a huge one for blaming the coaching, i more often than not find effort or basic handling bigger issues and those can be put at the feet of players as much as anything
....but i think far too often over the last few years ive struggled to actually see what we're trying to do or when i could see it it was pretty pedestrian, too often it was just crash at 12 and look for quick ball....but we'd look to crash on inside shoulder leaving the defence to spread wide
when i look at the players making good meters in the midfield they ALWAYS work to get onto the outside shoulder to either draw in the outside defender and make room for their wings....or to threaten that and to try and get the defence to over commit to the fold and fire back the other way...and we're either not trying to do that or putting in the effort to do it
either way, some really basic things need to change
There aren't many players who can beat their opposite and draw in the outside defender....
you say that...but every team seemed to have those players when up against us
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Also not a fan of picking up short-term solutions.
Neither am I, but nobody has said he’s the answer to our midfield problems? Its better to look ahead no doubt but if its possible to land him and he was happy to be a regular squad player(not necessarily starting each week) who offers experience for a year or 2 while Tele’a, Josh Whaanga and whoever it is they see at 12 long term find their feet at this level then in my opinion we would be silly not to at least entertain that option.
Proctor will be 32 by the time next season comes around so I don’t really see it happening, but if it did I wouldn’t be mad. If Tua wanted to come back to NZ and somehow landed up with us that would be great as he is only 26 and have an eye for the future with him that Proctor doesn’t provide. Defensive issues yes, but arguably a level above Gilbert based off this season.
The management team probably sees Te Hiwi and Whaanga as the likely long-term midfield.....
full name when talking about the Whaanga's please, you mean josh?
The one that is 20, not 27... I'd also expect Tayne Harvey to quickly move through the system as well. NZ Schools midfielder last year. In the Highlanders acadamey, aligned to Southland. Both him and Augistine should get some gametime for Southland this year.
-
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
Cully said five spots at most left... So -
Confirmed Leaving by the Highlanders:
Ainsley
Parkinson
Harmon
Patchell
Bogado
Garden-BachopProbably Leaving:
Jackson
M Whaanga
TimuDefinitely Already Signed:
Hurley
Stodart (Was only an injury replacement for Tucker/Dunshea)
J Whaanga
Umaga-Jensen
New Hooker (99% sure it is Vikena)
Outside Back (Remains a Mystery)If those nine have left, and those six have signed then:
- Hurley and the Outside Back replace Garden-Bachop and Bogado
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
- Vikena replaces Jackson
Other Definites:
- Tighthead to replace Ainsley
- Lock to replace Parkinson
Question Marks:
- Hurley/Gilbert could also cover 10, so the remaining back spot may be a case of getting the best back we can possibly get, before then defaulting to a third specialist 10 to replace Patchell
- Stodart could replace Harmon, but generally, teams like to have three specialist opensides. Could mean that Renton is leaving early (Dragons in the NRL - seems unlikely) or he replaces Hicks, or even Tucker.
Conclusion:
I'm going to guess it is 34 signed, with a tighthead prop, a lock, a loose forward or another lock (Could be Hicks, Frizell or a new openside) and a back of some description (Most likely a 10 or an outside back, they might wait for the NPC to fill this one).
-
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
one).
TUJ was contracted this year, was timu or Whaanga injury replacement for him? so the replacement goes and the original comes back?
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
one).
TUJ was contracted this year, was timu or Whaanga injury replacement for him? so the replacement goes and the original comes back?
M Whaanga replaced TUJ, who was never actually named in the squad.
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
-
im with ya
-
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
Cully said five spots at most left... So -
Confirmed Leaving by the Highlanders:
Ainsley
Parkinson
Harmon
Patchell
Bogado
Garden-BachopProbably Leaving:
Jackson
M Whaanga
TimuDefinitely Already Signed:
Hurley
Stodart (Was only an injury replacement for Tucker/Dunshea)
J Whaanga
Umaga-Jensen
New Hooker (99% sure it is Vikena)
Outside Back (Remains a Mystery)If those nine have left, and those six have signed then:
- Hurley and the Outside Back replace Garden-Bachop and Bogado
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
- Vikena replaces Jackson
Other Definites:
- Tighthead to replace Ainsley
- Lock to replace Parkinson
Question Marks:
- Hurley/Gilbert could also cover 10, so the remaining back spot may be a case of getting the best back we can possibly get, before then defaulting to a third specialist 10 to replace Patchell
- Stodart could replace Harmon, but generally, teams like to have three specialist opensides. Could mean that Renton is leaving early (Dragons in the NRL - seems unlikely) or he replaces Hicks, or even Tucker.
Conclusion:
I'm going to guess it is 34 signed, with a tighthead prop, a lock, a loose forward or another lock (Could be Hicks, Frizell or a new openside) and a back of some description (Most likely a 10 or an outside back, they might wait for the NPC to fill this one).
Irish Paul has previously stated he believes Renton is returning. With him and Broughton there should be enough coverage within the current playing grouo to avoid needing to recruit a stop-gap openside. The next couple of guys locally at openside will be Max Ratcliffe and Gregor Rutledge. Both are at least a couple of years away. I'd read into that article that they probably don't expect to see Tele'a returning. May still be hoping it happens, just aren't expecting it. I reckon if Byron Smith does have a decent year with Southland, he will be in as the third 10. Tangitau out of the Blues seems like the sort of player that fits with the narrative of picking up players who aren't getting a chance. Another I reckon is a chance is Finlay Brewis. Previously rated quite highly, not likely to start for the Crusaders while Williams is there. Easier to compete with Ma'u.
-
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
Cully said five spots at most left... So -
Confirmed Leaving by the Highlanders:
Ainsley
Parkinson
Harmon
Patchell
Bogado
Garden-BachopProbably Leaving:
Jackson
M Whaanga
TimuDefinitely Already Signed:
Hurley
Stodart (Was only an injury replacement for Tucker/Dunshea)
J Whaanga
Umaga-Jensen
New Hooker (99% sure it is Vikena)
Outside Back (Remains a Mystery)If those nine have left, and those six have signed then:
- Hurley and the Outside Back replace Garden-Bachop and Bogado
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
- Vikena replaces Jackson
Other Definites:
- Tighthead to replace Ainsley
- Lock to replace Parkinson
Question Marks:
- Hurley/Gilbert could also cover 10, so the remaining back spot may be a case of getting the best back we can possibly get, before then defaulting to a third specialist 10 to replace Patchell
- Stodart could replace Harmon, but generally, teams like to have three specialist opensides. Could mean that Renton is leaving early (Dragons in the NRL - seems unlikely) or he replaces Hicks, or even Tucker.
Conclusion:
I'm going to guess it is 34 signed, with a tighthead prop, a lock, a loose forward or another lock (Could be Hicks, Frizell or a new openside) and a back of some description (Most likely a 10 or an outside back, they might wait for the NPC to fill this one).
I'd read into that article that they probably don't expect to see Tele'a returning. May still be hoping it happens, just aren't expecting it. I reckon if Byron Smith does have a decent year with Southland, he will be in as the third 10. Tangitau out of the Blues seems like the sort of player that fits with the narrative of picking up players who aren't getting a chance. Another I reckon is a chance is Finlay Brewis. Previously rated quite highly, not likely to start for the Crusaders while Williams is there. Easier to compete with Ma'u.
Haven't read the article, but I'd assume if Tele'a hasn't yet signed elsewhere, then logically he would re-sign? Hope he does.
Have heard Tangitau is a no in regards to the outside back.
Tighthead prop will be a tricky one...
-
@frugby yeah, resigning tela would be the top of my list for them to sort out
anyone got any goss as to why we only signed him for one year? our idea? his idea?
im hoping if it was ours we didn't piss him off as i think he's done enough this year to at least have some interest from elsewhere
-
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
one).
TUJ was contracted this year, was timu or Whaanga injury replacement for him? so the replacement goes and the original comes back?
M Whaanga replaced TUJ, who was never actually named in the squad.
Correct.
To avoid any confusion here for anyone. TUJ was still signed with the team this season, he just wasn’t named due to his injury sustained in NPC.
As a result Matt Whaanga received a full contract and was named in the squad initially instead. He wasn’t an in season/pre season injury replacement if that’s what anyone is thinking.
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
-
@Kiwiwomble said in Highlanders 2024:
anyone got any goss as to why we only signed him for one year? our idea? his idea?
Probably because he was constantly injured. It was also mentioned by a good source that he was a cheap signing too
-
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
Cully said five spots at most left... So -
Confirmed Leaving by the Highlanders:
Ainsley
Parkinson
Harmon
Patchell
Bogado
Garden-BachopProbably Leaving:
Jackson
M Whaanga
TimuDefinitely Already Signed:
Hurley
Stodart (Was only an injury replacement for Tucker/Dunshea)
J Whaanga
Umaga-Jensen
New Hooker (99% sure it is Vikena)
Outside Back (Remains a Mystery)If those nine have left, and those six have signed then:
- Hurley and the Outside Back replace Garden-Bachop and Bogado
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
- Vikena replaces Jackson
Other Definites:
- Tighthead to replace Ainsley
- Lock to replace Parkinson
Question Marks:
- Hurley/Gilbert could also cover 10, so the remaining back spot may be a case of getting the best back we can possibly get, before then defaulting to a third specialist 10 to replace Patchell
- Stodart could replace Harmon, but generally, teams like to have three specialist opensides. Could mean that Renton is leaving early (Dragons in the NRL - seems unlikely) or he replaces Hicks, or even Tucker.
Conclusion:
I'm going to guess it is 34 signed, with a tighthead prop, a lock, a loose forward or another lock (Could be Hicks, Frizell or a new openside) and a back of some description (Most likely a 10 or an outside back, they might wait for the NPC to fill this one).
Irish Paul has previously stated he believes Renton is returning. With him and Broughton there should be enough coverage within the current playing grouo to avoid needing to recruit a stop-gap openside.
Hold on. Are you saying you believe Renton and Broughton will be used as stop gap 7’s then?
-
He (Tele'a) may have seen the Landers opportunity as a good one to develop a highlight reel. If we can keep him, great. If not, we probably knew what we were getting last year when we got him at the last minute. The other spanner is that Jonah Lowe still has one more year to run. Before he was injured, he was only used at centre.
-
@Landers92 said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
@frugby said in Highlanders 2024:
@SouthernMann said in Highlanders 2024:
Pully Cully with a forward looking conversation with Roger Clark. TUJ back on deck in 2025, although he does not have a provincial contract yet. Quote from Clark says they are generally not after large players like the Blues/Hurricanes have. At most five spots avaliable. Joseph has been Actively recruiting over the last five months. Selling point we can get players on the field. Josh Whaanga has a full contract, no mention of his brother. Stodart and Hurley with full contracts too. Might still be looking at props, a lock, a 10, midfielder and an outside back. https://www.thepost.co.nz/sport/350305616/jamie-josephs-recruitment-drive-already-well-under-way-highlanders
Cully said five spots at most left... So -
Confirmed Leaving by the Highlanders:
Ainsley
Parkinson
Harmon
Patchell
Bogado
Garden-BachopProbably Leaving:
Jackson
M Whaanga
TimuDefinitely Already Signed:
Hurley
Stodart (Was only an injury replacement for Tucker/Dunshea)
J Whaanga
Umaga-Jensen
New Hooker (99% sure it is Vikena)
Outside Back (Remains a Mystery)If those nine have left, and those six have signed then:
- Hurley and the Outside Back replace Garden-Bachop and Bogado
- J Whaanga and Umaga-Jensen replace Timu and M Whaanga
- Vikena replaces Jackson
Other Definites:
- Tighthead to replace Ainsley
- Lock to replace Parkinson
Question Marks:
- Hurley/Gilbert could also cover 10, so the remaining back spot may be a case of getting the best back we can possibly get, before then defaulting to a third specialist 10 to replace Patchell
- Stodart could replace Harmon, but generally, teams like to have three specialist opensides. Could mean that Renton is leaving early (Dragons in the NRL - seems unlikely) or he replaces Hicks, or even Tucker.
Conclusion:
I'm going to guess it is 34 signed, with a tighthead prop, a lock, a loose forward or another lock (Could be Hicks, Frizell or a new openside) and a back of some description (Most likely a 10 or an outside back, they might wait for the NPC to fill this one).
Irish Paul has previously stated he believes Renton is returning. With him and Broughton there should be enough coverage within the current playing grouo to avoid needing to recruit a stop-gap openside.
Hold on. Are you saying you believe Renton and Broughton will be used as stop gap 7’s then?
Yip. Broughton has done the role before. Was even picked ahead of Michaels. Renton has played openside previously as well. Otago's opensides will be out of Harry Taylor, Aaron Withy and Max Ratcliffe. Southland will run dual opensides, with Mciahels and Withy. I can't imagine there are many decent options around the country. Just take the gamble for a year.
